Quixtar/Amway/BWW


So last night I had gone to attend this Quixtar/BWW seminar, upon invitation from a friend, who is an IBO in the [[http://quixtar.com/|Quixtar]] family now. The presentation was slick, the speaker professional. I was told the dress code was formal, so I went in shirts and trousers. But I was still under-dressed, because everyone else had shown up in suits and ties. The people were nice and friendly, but the whole environment had this omnious feeling like in those movies where everything was nice and bright, but something dark and murky lurked deep underneath the surface.

For one thing, people related to Quixtar always refer to “the business” or “the plan” or “the team”. I don’t like such omnious notations. Throughout the talk, not even once they explictly declared //who// they actually were. It is true that there’s a lot of crap on the Internet and elsewhere about Quixtar and their family of companies, and while most of it might not be true, I believe some of it still it. More than anything else, I guess I’m just opposed to the idea itself.

I was told to go in with an open mind, and I did my best. But I came out thinking that this is such an intellectually unsatisfying job. You never know the big picture. You’re always in this hierarchy. If something goes wrong and “the team” doesn’t show up, what do you do? What about all these Quixtar products? Who is quality testing them? If Quixtar has so much money, why don’t they advertise their products? Granted that “the business” is supposed to be the advertisement, but I still don’t see any harm in some extra publicity.

I could probably ramble on this for a long time. But I’ll stop for now. [[http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/|Merchants of Deception]] is a must read for anyone who is planning to get into Quixtar. I’m not saying you should believe it, or consider all things said therein true. However, if you’re getting exposed to all the slick presentations from those folks, you should atleast expose yourself to the other side of the story and then make a judgement for yourself.


Thank you all for contributing to this discussion. However, I feel that these discussions are probably better taken elsewhere. I am therefore disabling any further comments on this post. You can still view the existing comments.

205 comments

  1. Joecool18

    Good post!

    Absolutely, anyone who is thinking about joining should do their due diligence. Some of the quixtar promoters will encourage you not to speak to family or friends because they may have seen a “negative” different version of amway/quixtar, therefore you should only speak to someone who is successful or the person who invited you. That’s wrong, why shouldn’t you be encouraged to research as much as possible before committing? Learning from failures or other’s past experiences can be just as valuable as learning from someone who is successful.

    The promoters want to get you excited and sign you up before your excitement wears off. Just make your decision based on logic and not excitement and good luck. Making an informed decision is a wise one.

    p.s. You may want to ask the promoters how much your monthly operating costs will be (voicemail, website, training tapes and seminars).

  2. Joecool18

    Good post!

    Absolutely, anyone who is thinking about joining should do their due diligence. Some of the quixtar promoters will encourage you not to speak to family or friends because they may have seen a “negative” different version of amway/quixtar, therefore you should only speak to someone who is successful or the person who invited you. That’s wrong, why shouldn’t you be encouraged to research as much as possible before committing? Learning from failures or other’s past experiences can be just as valuable as learning from someone who is successful.

    The promoters want to get you excited and sign you up before your excitement wears off. Just make your decision based on logic and not excitement and good luck. Making an informed decision is a wise one.

    p.s. You may want to ask the promoters how much your monthly operating costs will be (voicemail, website, training tapes and seminars). You can then calculate how much profit you’ll need to offset the overhead.

  3. Mark Shorter

    Both posts are good, as far as doing credible research. Definitely do this if you are thinking about becoming a Quixtar IBO. The idea of affiliate marketing is nothing new but it does take work to build it into successful business. I think spending less than a $100 bucks a month to operate my business was a good deal since I actually did the work and made profits. Not to mention that most of this cost is a tax deduction.

    The comment about being careful to who you talk to also hits home to me because some of my own family tried to tell me not to do this IBO thing because they had seen something like it before and did not think it was going to work. Thankfully my dreams to improve my life and provide stability for my own family were strong. I almost listened to them. The moral of the story: “Be careful who you listen to, in business and in life! Make sure they have the fruit on the tree and are where you want to be in your own life.”

  4. Kenny St. Mark

    Hey man, I like your site, and I understand you have your opinions, but please, don’t judge our business tell you have tried it. An intelligent person takes a good look at something before making assumptions about it. All you saw was the plan of the business one time, and you tried to assume What we do. You always understand Quixtar the more times you see the plan. I am not sure about this “ominous” feeling you are talking about, because frankly it seems as if you are just looking for things to say. Man it’s a meeting not some demonic congregation. Don’t all new opportunities give you that feeling of curiosity wondering what it is all about. Right now you went into that meeting already, before you even saw anything, that you were going to put on this attitude that you are not going to be “into” the meeting and that this meeting you are not going to like, even though you said you tried, I don’t belive you tried hard enough. Had you tried hard enough, you would have been speak for Quixtar and not against it. I understand still you were just expressing your opinion, and I am doing the same here as well.

    The clothes make the man. If you want persons to see and believe you to be a business owner, you should dress like one. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SUCH A STRICT DRESS CODE TO MAINTAIN THE CALIBER OF OUR BUSINESS MEETING, IT’S THE SIMPLEST OF BUSINESS ETIQUETTE THAT MANY PERSONS ARE FORGETTING NOWADAYS. Now you assume this was just some other small meeting that was just going to be pathetic and a waste of time. I am sure your friend told you were the dress code was. So many persons come to the meeting all the time, even after being told to dress professional, with a tie, but they don’t realise we were serious, till they come to the meeting. Let me ask you this: when you go to a interveiw, you wear just a pants and casual shirt? No, not if you want to be considered for the job. Quixtar is a business opportunity,a nd follows teh same principles. If someone told you they are inviting you to a business opportunity, why did you not come dressed in business attire, and I am sure everyone can agree that business attire is at least a shirt and tie. A suit is not neccessarily needed. The other persons wore suits because they chose to. Stop trying to pick out things, as if people wearing suits is a bad thing Because I can tell you I attended a meeting for another Networking company, and that meeting was so shabby. It took place in a furniture store and the presenter is not who I would call the most “professional looking” of men. However, Quixtar meetings are ALWAY held in suitable places like hotels, and the presenters wear suits to ensure that they practice what they preach. I mean if you are presenting a BUSINESS PLAN, how else you expect them to dress?

    Also, they always refer to “the Business” and the “Plan” because you came here to hear about the business and the speaker is here to take time out to help show you have he can help you to turn your life around. NOT TO TALK ABOUT HIMSELF AND BOAST ABOUT HIS ACHEIVEMENS! That is not why we are here or why you took time from whatever else you could have been doing besides attedning the meeting, to listen to some talk about themsleves. Everyone likes it when you cut the chase and get to the point. Short; sweet; but yet precise. Usually they alwasy give you a breif history of their occupation-background and who they are at the end of the meeting and before.

    Also, keep in mind, this is “your busiess” if some does not do what they should, it matters not, because it really wil not affect you at all. This is not like some high school project, where everyone has a role to play, and there is a deadline for the work. It’s a business. And in a busines, yes everyone works as a team, but an employer should also not rely on just one colleague. If the employer can’t rely on someone to do a patricular task, what do you do, sit and mope?! NO! you just depend on the other members in your team, or another employee. Same as quixtar, that is why we teach you its better to rely on 1% from 100 sources, than 100% from 1 source. In quixtar we also teach you how to multiply your labour force, that is why we have persons who come under us, not because ITS A PYRAMID SCHEME, BECAUSE IT IS NOT! I am not saying you sai dit was,just sying in case you were thinking it.

    Persons just choose not to like our business, no mater how excellent the plan is shown to them, and then they will use all their power to show how our business is a scam, or is not as it says, or doesn’t work. I am not saying everything about quixtar is flawless. Nothing is perfect, but quixtar is a high successful company, and why do you think that is. Now, why not invest your time in your affairs and the things you must attend to, instead of writing this article. There are far more meaningful and important things in life.
    We also don’t advertise because we don’t need to and choose not to. BWW is far successful without the advertising. That shows just how successful we are, where many companies rely on advertising to help them grow, we have went 30 YEARS WITHOUT IT! How you like them apples.

    We rely on our IBO’S to promote the business which is what you freind was doing by inviting you to the meeting. He saw that he can help you obtain the same success that he is aiming for, but I guess you just can’t see it.

    The products had been tested and proven. There is something in business known as supplies and products act. You think they are going to tell millions of persons to change their buying habits and purchase products from their business supply store: quixtar, without testing these products throughly to ensure their euthenticity?!

    Let me ask you something: No one is perfect right. So none of us knows whats right from wrong, but I am sure not going to sit around and do nothing and become financial unstable for the rest of my life, when Quixtar allows me the opportunity to change it. An intelligent person ceases an opportunity and doesn’t allow it to pass them by. Now since we are not perfect, I think I would perfer to follow the Britt World Wide system, which has been proven to work for 30 plus years, rather than what you said, because, can I ask you something: Do you own a successful business?…Ok then.
    Anyone can say whatever they want, that doesn’t make it true. I respect that you were just expressing your opinion, but I just had to clarify things here. I am sure even after I typed all this you will stil fine something to say in retort, by I guess that is just some people.

    I leave you with these:

    1. Are you going to offer me money when I need financial aid?
    2. Do you have the lifestyle of luxury and peace of mind that I hope to obtain through working in this business?
    3. Then why should I listen to you?

    Success is achieved by following in the footsteps of those who are where you wish to be. I am assuming, eevn though I should not make assumptions, that you are not where I wish to be, so I chose to stay with Quixtar

    Kenny (Bahamas)
    kennyjmark@yahoo.com

  5. ATAS

    There is this one thing that ends this debate- called 100% money back guarantee.
    You think there is something shady? For a refundable fee, why not try it and then write what you want. The others obviously did and succeeded.

    As far as the business not being too intellectually stimulating, you may be right. But, how many people have intellectually stimulating jobs? At least, you can do intellectually stimulating tasks when you want and for how long you want – you are in control of your life and money and that’s FREEDOM. That, for one, is an INTELLECTUAL choice.

    Cheers,
    ATAS

  6. Baerman

    Kenny St. Mark-

    I can’t imagine that you sell too many products when you can’t even communicate successfully. Go to college, learn some grammar, and go get a real job. Seriously…euthenticity? Don’t try to say that was a typing error, your reply is ridden with them.

  7. Dhaval Shah

    Baerman

    what are you think if you are at INDIA
    you don’t know hindi,Gujrarat languages

    so how can you understand ?
    yes sure you make mistake

    so, don’t go on Kenny St. Mark’s grammar
    and positively think what did he want to tell us..

    Amway is the Best Business of the World
    Amway is AAA Rating Company and has no debts
    Amway gives you 100% money back Garruntey
    and the real fact is that no one can
    business like Amway
    cause its Products its products have dramatic results
    use Amway’s Products and Feel

    money can buy anything
    if you have you can…

    i want to say you more but I am Gujarati
    and i don’t know English well..

    If you are able to understand hindi or gujarati i will tell you a lot
    more than 4500 pages

    i have it.

    so be careful don’t tell negative to anyone

    HERE IS EXAMPLE
    IF U WANT TO PURCHASE NEW CAR
    YOU HAVE TO ASK ANY CAR OWNER
    NOT BICYCLE OWNER………..OK
    SO ASK ME ABOUT AMWAY I WILL TELL YOU..

    DHAVAL SHAH
    the_val_shah@yahoo.com

  8. Joecool18

    It’s quite simple. Go ask some of these “successful” IBOs to show you their financial statements (tax returns). I’m not talking about their entire tax statement, but the business portion showing you how much they ACTUALLY make from quixtar.

    If they won’t show it to you, that should be a red flag. And showing you a copy of someone else’s check doesn’t cut it because of course, some people do make money, it’s just that the vast majority do not.

  9. Carlos

    The clothes make the man. If you want persons to see and believe you to be a business owner, you should dress like one.
    =========================
    If that is the case, the we should all dress like BILL GATES, ie. BUSINESS CASUAL, or simply casual. Now he is a BILLIONAIRE. I have met true millionaires and not the wannabees. The true millionaires do not dress flashy at all, in fact rather modest. Any one ever read THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR? Then you all get my drift.

    Anyhow, BWW,The Team etc., are all long term projects and do not expect to get rich overnight. Just tell the truth, the objective is to direct business traffic to a website for purchases so you can get a kick back. Nuff said. The more your downlines buy, the more money you make, that is what it is in a nut shell.

    If you want to make cold hard cash, fast and upfront, work with Specialty Merchandise Corp., or be an ebay merchant, or a direct mail marketer (snail mail or with an electronic store front).

    If you want to make money out of someone elses misery, buy the real estate kits that teach you to buy property very inexpensively USING OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. Imagine buying a foreclosed home and selling it. There indeed many ways to skin a cat and make mucho bucks.

    But I do agree, I find the VanAndels and DeVos people very nefarious, odious, unsavory and untrustworthy. Thank God DeVos lost the governors race. EeGads Republicans are just greedy people who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes. Creepy if you ask me.

    If I come across as an ICONOCLAST, I am, (in the mold of Dennis Miller with some healthy dose of Jay Leno for good measure).

  10. Carlos

    If you really, really REALLLYYYYY want to make money within AMWAY, BWW, etc. (drum rolls please)………
    Sell the motivational books, tapes, CDs, DVD’s…that is where the REAL money is made. If not, you will be among the 99.99% who will fail and never make any money.

    Oops…the cat is out of the bag…(tee hee, snicker-snicker).

    If you have seen the Dateline episode, this should come as NO surprise.

  11. Dhaval Shah

    Carlos,Joecool18

    how nice the person make this blog for discourage people for amway but the real thing is that it not work for this …….. so nice…

    but this is true in dark black hair somewhere white hair will be…
    understand … what i said…
    in good community bad people are there..
    bye

  12. Joecool18

    Dhaval,

    Good luck to you. If you enjoy a business where your success comes from other’s losses, then I don;’t know how you sleep at nite.

  13. daniel

    I do not recommend quickstar for i was lured into it without a hint that it was a networking marketing.

    this shows the confidence of there business, if you are so successful, then why dont you tell upfront when you first meet

    i don’t recommend getting sucessful and being parasitic.

    if you ever attend a meeting, you will hear a lot of CARS..stories. BMW mercedes……..blah blah

    and af ocurse Hawaii too will come in picture……ROSY…
    is waht i will call QUICKSTAR.

  14. Joecool18

    Quixtar is not a good opportunity. The vast majority who sign up end up with less money than they started with. That’s it period.

  15. ransing2907

    I too almost joined in quixtar. However with a gut feeling that didn’t feel right and after doing some research, I decided not to join in the game. I can’t seem to get rid of the feeling of it being a pyramid effect. Even though I was told several times that was not the case. It still just seemed like that after all the facts were given to me. I must say I have tried some of the products and was pleasantly surprised! But I don’t like the idea of having to make a list of family and friends and sit with “my mentor” and make phone calls to them to get them to join. I guess I’m just not that kind of person. I figure if this business is as lucrative as it claims then why are so many people scepticle? If there are tose of you out there and making the money, please do tell. How much do you really make?? I was surprised to learn when we started to get to the nuts and bolts of things about all the “other costs” that started coming out. I understand the hook up for the communication. Then it bacame all the business meeting,seminars, cd’s and books just to name a few!! Eventually that adds up to a lot of money. I know I could have found just customers to go to the site and possible buy, but that didn’t seem good enough. I don’t like to pressure anyone into buying into something. Like I said the company should be able to speak for itself. And when I started talking to people about doing this I got people saying all the negative things you could possibly think of. Not to mention I did have famliy members in Amway and they are no better off financially today!! So again if you are susccessful for quixtar please tell me what you actually take home doing this business. I know and fully understand it’s not a get rich quick,but if you have been at it for some time at least you should be making something for your efforts.

  16. Anonymous

    BE CAREFUL WITH QUIKSTAR!!!
    You have to invest a lot of money into this and a lot of work. They don’t really tell you how much money you have to invest up front. Yea you can make money–maybe eventually–but make sure you know what you’re getting into. I’ve seen so many sad stories….

    Most people are introduced to quikstar by a friend who says something along the lines of, “hey, I just embarked on this great business opportunity and the company is expanding, and we are looking for more people. Since you are my friend….” or something like that. BE WARE, all this is scripted!! Yes scripted! Don’t believe me, well, once you join you will be doing this too…read on. You friend who you think that you knew well will be using this script on you…it’s complicated!!

    The way it works is that you have to sign up to this website thing and buy quikstar only products (for the rest of your life). You get points which equal cash. So after spending around $200 a month (minimum), you get about $7 back. The more you spend, the more you get back–but wait a minute, you’re supposed to be making money. So how do you make money? You convince a lot of other people to join (through scripted dialogue); and when they buy stuff you earn more points including their points–you get the idea. And in order for them to make money, they have to convince other people and so on … So your goal is to buy from quikstar companies, and convince a lot of other people to do the same. You then get to this magic number of points which earns you some real cash.

    Sound like a pyramid scheme? Well, through legal loopholes, it’s not. And like I said above…I guess it can work for some people. You just have to be at the top of the pyramid–uh,I mean earn enough points.

    When they try to sign you up, usually a friend approaches you and tells you he has this wonderful business opportunity and is making lots of money and doing business with high level professionals. And your friend is willing to introduce you to this “WONDERFUL” once in a lifetime opportunity. NEW?? type of business.

    Well, first of all, quikstar and similar companies have been around for ages. They’re nothing new. Now they’ve got the internet, so I guess that’s whats new. And yea, they need you more that you think. They’re not being generous in granting you a ‘once-in-a lifetime’ opportunity. You are money to them. When you sign on, you are at the bottom and everything you buy (your $200+) trickles up the ladder and funds people on top.

    Yea, I guess it can work, but you have to be at the top to make the money. Do lots of research before you sign up with them.

  17. sunny

    the blog is good as it has people who are for it and against it.
    i have to confess i like the arguements which the people have raised/objected to joining quick start.

    having joined quickstar ( forget the spelling) stayed there for a month fighting myself whether to stay or quit. i chose the later.
    reason: i didnt like the way you have to talk to coerse people into it. I didnt like the way a bunch of people get at one place once a week may be more, to talk about a bunch of products which may be good, but just not the only things in the market. and why should i pay more for something which is much cheaper outside.

    the best part were the vitamin pills. take 3 pills at a time, twice or thrice a day… man that is BS.. even a patient doesnt swallow so many pills. granted that they have soo much packed in them. you have to ask yourself the question.. do you really need them. i think a big no…
    what happens if you over eat.. the body just flushes it out through the natural processes.

    any ways to the main point of the discussion. the people are brain washed not to pay any attention to the negative minded people. these are the people who ask questions about how and why this works. you can observe this in the pattern they answer. or the way they try to explain the plan. every one has the abstract way of arguing thing showing a smoke screen.. and talking in the air.
    talking about walmart.. and as some one has already pointed out, BMWs, cruises… and retirement at 30′s…..

    i repeat the same cautionary note. it isnt worth fighting our conscience for. and those of you are still in diff minds about joining it. first get to know what you have to do and what you have to loose before joining.
    All the best.

  18. Anonymous

    [quote comment="2589"]If you really, really REALLLYYYYY want to make money within AMWAY, BWW, etc. (drum rolls please)………
    Sell the motivational books, tapes, CDs, DVD’s…that is where the REAL money is made. If not, you will be among the 99.99% who will fail and never make any money.

    Oops…the cat is out of the bag…(tee hee, snicker-snicker).

    If you have seen the Dateline episode, this should come as NO surprise.[/quote]

    YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT CARLOS!!! You HAVE TO BE A GOOD MOTIVATIONS SPEAKER TO MAKE IT TO THE TOP BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO SELL CD’s books etc to convince the people at the bottom not to leave…and you have to convince them that if they are not making money, they need to buy more BOOKS and CD’s!! I’m serious–really serious. This is how it works.

    The quikstar system is a ladder system (I’m not supposed to say pyramid…they get upset). You work your way up the ladder to different levels…emerald, ruby etc. When you are on top, you’re called Diamond or some thing like that–if you ever get there! Remember the points system??? You can only make so much money off of points, so you better learn to be a REALLY GOOD motivational speaker and write BOOKS, and record CD’s etc.

    IF you get to the top, you sell this stuff (CD’s…tapes…books) and that’s what brings in your money. Who’s buying them–the people at the bottom. Yeah, you have no choice if you’re at the bottom. You’re told to invest what little money you get back,if any, into buying this stuff! MONEY BACK GUARANTEE??? WHATEVER! The tapes, books etc are for convincing you to stay [remember that I mentioned the guy at the top was a REALLY GOOD MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER]; so you don’t leave…and time goes by. Before you know it, you’ve gone past the ‘trial’ period. No more money back. If the guy at the top is doing a good job, he’ll make you stay and get more money–FROM YOU!!!

    Now think about this; how many people will rise to the top and be motivational people??? I mean, to be a motivational speaker in their organization is to convince people at the bottom not to leave! Very few people have that kind of talent. That’s why it’s a (forgive me) pyramid! IT’S NARROW AT THE TOP! It’s like saying we will ALL rise and be President of the US! Can I stress enough that you have to be a good motivational speaker to be at the top?

    When you go to them and tell them you’re not suceeding, they tell you are not doing what they said. The tell you to buy more books and CD’s. They tell you to go to more of their conferences. (all of this is costing you $$$)
    If you complain, they make you feel like a failure in a nice way. They basically put the ball in your court “Do you want to go ahead with this? Do you know why you are not suceeding? It’s because you didn’t do what I told you. I told you to go to the conference, and you didn’t.” Then they’ll tell you about success stories about how people went to the conference and made lots of money etc–I mean, look at infomercials on late night TV–we know this stuff doesn’t work (for the majority of people), but they have testimony and good speakers who make us want to take that ‘once-in-a lifetime shot!

    Now if anyone from quikstar is reading this, as I wrote in my prior post, and I quote “Yea, I guess it can work, but you have to be at the top to make the money. Do lots of research before you sign up with them.”
    So don’t get mad. Just leave me alone. I didn’t sign up with you guys [QUIKSTAR...BWW...AMWAY...whatever you're called] and I’m really HAPPY. I’m sure there are people who signed up with you and are happy and making money. I don’t personally know any of them! I feel sorry for the people I know who are in quikstar.

  19. Anonymous

    [quote comment="2960"]
    any ways to the main point of the discussion. the people are brain washed not to pay any attention to the negative minded people. these are the people who ask questions about how and why this works. you can observe this in the pattern they answer. or the way they try to explain the plan. [/quote]

    Yes indeed my friend. Well said….

  20. MDRach

    I too was approached by a female in my college class. She said that I came off as the type who was looking to earn some extra income, so she wanted to sit down and have a meeting with me. We went out for lunch but only could stay “15 minutes” because she was in a rush. Now that I look back, I know it was because the longer we sat there the more questions she knew I would ask that she couldn’t answer. The first red flag I noticed was how she couldn’t explain the whole plan in detail and how she drove a car that wasn’t really all that great. But yet she had been there for 2 years.

    I gave her the benefit of the doubt eventhough something just didn’t feel right (it must have been the $8,000-15,000 income a month that got me). So I went out to VA to a business meeting with a lot of young people dressed in suits and ties. It seemed a little more legit because everyone looked so professional. After I sat through the speaker’s presentation, which was a good one, I started thinking about it. I went back and forth with myself as to whether or not this was indeed a scam. On one hand I kept thinking to myself that it couldn’t be since “you have to spend the money each month anyway, but now you can earn some of it back.”
    Later in the night my friend introduced me to the speaker (who was also her mentor) and when I asked a question I was told that we could go into more detail at our next meeting in 24-48 hrs. Now this alone struck me as odd that it had to be a day or two. So I stood with my friend and decided on two days away for our meeting. I casually asked her a thing or two about it and she too just dodged my answers. Then she basically said we would wrap things up and talk later. I showed the packet and cd I was loaned and she laughed. Now that I have read all of the blogs on the internet I have made up my mind.

    Just a question to ask yourselves. If this isn’t a scam/ pyramid scheme, then why is it that when you google quickstar the majority of pages it hits are all warnings on it being a scam???? Think about when you google a different company like WAL MART. Does it come back with a ton of different people discussing it being a scam? Nope. I hope they get busted for being already rich scum bags who mislead and take more money from people who “look like they could use a little money.”

  21. Joecool18

    If someone recruite you for quixtar, ask them to see their profit/loss statements. Anyone who buys into a real business demands it. Why wouldn’t you demand it before joining quixtar?

    It’s why so many IBOs refuse to dislose any income information, because it is most likely that they are losing money on the tapes books and functions, they you only hear about how the system works because they earn $8 a month in rebates.

  22. Joecool18

    For people who are being prospected into quixtar:

    Ask many questions. Ask how it works, ask for proof that these folks are actually making money. DOn’t accept a photocopy of a check from seom guy “way up there”. Ask for
    proof of earnings from the people prospecting you.

    If they avoid and dodge your questions, that should send up all kinds of red flags.

  23. johnstarr

    [quote comment="2585"]The clothes make the man. If you want persons to see and believe you to be a business owner, you should dress like one.
    =========================
    If that is the case, the we should all dress like BILL GATES, ie. BUSINESS CASUAL, or simply casual. Now he is a BILLIONAIRE. I have met true millionaires and not the wannabees. The true millionaires do not dress flashy at all, in fact rather modest. Any one ever read THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR? Then you all get my drift.

    Anyhow, BWW,The Team etc., are all long term projects and do not expect to get rich overnight. Just tell the truth, the objective is to direct business traffic to a website for purchases so you can get a kick back. Nuff said. The more your downlines buy, the more money you make, that is what it is in a nut shell.

    If you want to make cold hard cash, fast and upfront, work with Specialty Merchandise Corp., or be an ebay merchant, or a direct mail marketer (snail mail or with an electronic store front).

    If you want to make money out of someone elses misery, buy the real estate kits that teach you to buy property very inexpensively USING OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. Imagine buying a foreclosed home and selling it. There indeed many ways to skin a cat and make mucho bucks.

    But I do agree, I find the VanAndels and DeVos people very nefarious, odious, unsavory and untrustworthy. Thank God DeVos lost the governors race. EeGads Republicans are just greedy people who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes. Creepy if you ask me.

    If I come across as an ICONOCLAST, I am, (in the mold of Dennis Miller with some healthy dose of Jay Leno for good measure).[/quote]

    I’m sure Bill Gates dresses in a suit when doing business with other business men not in front of the camera. In front of the camera he needs to act like your buddy to have you buy more software. Your buddies always dress up when they talk to you? I’m sure when you met true millionaires you where makeing big business deals to?

  24. Joecool18

    When you go to a quixtar function, there are a few speakers and thousands of IBOs in the audience. It will always be like that.

    Of course it’s “possible” for anyone to build a business big enough to get you on the stage, but it’s not “likely”.

    The upline will always try and sell you on what’s “possible”. Well, it’s “possible” for you to start you own company and be bigger than microsoft too.

  25. And

    Hi,

    I have been to quixtar meetings and everybody in the meeting says they are making money and stuff…but nobody ever showed a copy of check they receive from the quixtar to prove it.

    Nobody ever tell in the meeting what type of work do u need to do inorder to get the money. They just give you a simple concept which is not clear enough.The personnel in the meetings claim as they are doctors, engineers and business personnel and attorneys. but they dont prove themselves showing any id or anything.

    I feel some people might have made money, and those who succeeded wants to make more money by luring other people into this showing a sweet and wonderful way beneath which underlies the unknown truth.

    Well one morething…let us suppose we buy a laptop from circuitcity through quixtar at the retail price which is like $1000, which sometimes would be at a deal for $599 where you end up paying $400 extra through quixtar and you might earn 300 points but in return you get only 100bucks still which is less than 400 savings.

    So anyone who is planning to join quixtar do one experiment…ask if you have any friends in quixtar and findout the product prices that you purchase regularly and you calculate the amount its going to be through quixtar and walmart or kroger or someother retail store. Take the quixtar price amount and subtract the price of all the items you actually spent, just deposit the amount that you saved compared to quixtar price in a bank account and checkout how much you are saving? and calculate the amount u get based on points in quixtar this should give you the answer whether to join or not.

    What if the laws change regarding the residual income? Since its tax free and everyone is taking advantage of it…dont you think govt will do something about it in near future? So think about these hurdles and think before you join.

    I made my decision I am not going to join.

  26. Joecool18

    By the way, if your quixtar group teaches “buy from yourself”, think about this: You will never buy your way to prosperity.

  27. johnstarr

    By the way And, and joecool18 you’re not going to get rich off of yourself. Does Walmart stay open with one customer? This type of business helps make money build up in places like the business bank account. Also if you get your friends and family in the program then money builds up and stays with your family and friends instead of walmarts pockets. I don’t mind if my upline and Quixtar makes money too because they’re helping me make money. I sign up with discount cards for my groceries to save with. If I could make money on it by sending people to the same grocery store I would do that instead of doing quixtar it would be easier. Buying from your business is like a savings account. I have a savings account with my bank that is called Keep The Change. When I buy anything using my debit card that amount is rounded up to the nearest dollar, and is sent to my savings account. So I slowly end up putting money in my savings without thinking about it. Also $25 a week goes in the account automatically. Well when you buy from your business the “profit” goes to the business instead of you spending it elsewhere. Then when your business needs a computer or you go on a business trip you can use it for business. Then you can deduct it in taxes.

    Now if you get customers (alot of customers), it adds up to money you would not have had in the first place. It’s simple math. The key to this business is alot of work at first and time. Time is where you get good business owners in your downline. If I look at any other investments, this business is the fastest and largest return. Unless you have lots of money, time to say flip houses, which is risky. The best exercise is to study HYIPs. High Yield Interest Programs. The ones on the internet that have compound interest daily 1% 2% and study the math of compounding. How long will it take to double your money. Its fun at 5%.

    If you look at stocks you need lots of money. On average you’re looking at 10% a year profit. How much time would it take to double your money? Thats not including taxes being taken out.

    If you don’t like the stuff you sell and won’t buy them yourself, why would you expect others to buy from you.

  28. johnstarr

    [quote comment="3095"]By the way, if your quixtar group teaches “buy from yourself”, think about this: You will never buy your way to prosperity.[/quote]

    By the way And, and joecool18 you’re not going to get rich off of yourself. Walmart would close with only one customer. Lets stop and think how many customers go to Walmart daily in a city of 500,000 people. Quixtar is a type of business helps make money build up in places like the business bank account. Also if you get your friends and family in the program then money builds up and stays with your family and friends instead of walmart’s pockets. I don’t mind if my upline and Quixtar makes money too because they’re helping me make money. I sign up with discount cards for my groceries to save with. If I could make money on it by sending people to the same grocery store I would do that instead of doing quixtar it would be easier. Buying from your business is like a savings account. I have a savings account with my bank that is called Keep The Change. When I buy anything using my debit card that amount is rounded up to the nearest dollar, and is sent to my savings account. So I slowly end up putting money in my savings without thinking about it. Also $25 a week goes in the account automatically. Well when you buy from your business the “profit” goes to the business instead of you spending it elsewhere. Then when your business needs a computer or you go on a business trip you can use it for business. Then you can deduct it in taxes.

    Now if you get customers (alot of customers), it adds up to money you would not have had in the first place. It’s simple math. The key to this business is alot of work at first and time. Time is where you get good business owners in your downline. If I look at any other investments, this business is the fastest and largest return. Unless you have lots of money, time to say flip houses, which is risky. The best exercise is to study HYIPs. High Yield Interest Programs. The ones on the internet that have compound interest daily 1% 2% and study the math of compounding. How long will it take to double your money. Its fun at 5%.

    If you look at stocks you need lots of money. On average you’re looking at 10% a year profit. How much time would it take to double your money? Thats not including taxes being taken out.

    If you don’t like the stuff you sell and won’t buy them yourself, why would you expect others to buy from you.

  29. Anonymous

    “EeGads Republicans are just greedy people who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes.”

    What the hell are you talking about? I’m Republican and have no problem paying my own taxes, thank you. I also give to the needy, which hardly makes me greedy, and I know PLENTY of other Republicans like me. Stop making blanket statements. Or I could be just as bitter and narrow-minded as you and say that Democrats are socialists who complain too much.

    That said – about this Quixtar and Amway – Quixtar sounds like the Amway for people who are too young or naive to have been taken by Amway in the 80s and 90s. Their practices are nearly identical. Mention this “wonderful business opportunity” to your friends and family and see how fast they run.

    So tell me why, when we unexpectedly run into you, a casual associate we haven’t seen in years and hardly know you, instead of making small talk about our families and jobs, within 30 seconds you mention that you’ve started your own business. So we politely ask what kind of business, thinking maybe it’s a software startup of some sort, you get vague and say “Oh, it’s an internet company called Quixtar.” Why won’t you tell us what exactly this company is? When we politely ask what it’s about, you want to come to our house to “tell us about it.” You’ve never talked to us longer than 10 minutes before, yet suddenly want to be best chums, come over to play a board game with the family, and tell us about this great new business opportunity? No thank you. And we feel very sorry for you, because you’re going to be making this same speech to people over and over and over, and you’re not going to make any real money. In fact, just before you noticed us in the store, you were taking down the phone number and address of some poor sap you probably had pizza delivered from in the past, and now you’re going to his house to talk about “the business” with him. He sure did look anxious to get away! But now you’re going to his house. Poor him, to have to uncomfortably sit through your sales pitch, and poor you, because you’re going to be feeling a lot of rejection and disappointment very soon.

    I know, because I’ve been there. And I prefer to be friends with my family and buddies, not target them as my next potential business partners and try to guilt them into it every chance I get. Oh and yes, guilt is a very big part of this business. If you try to back out now, you’re going to be given lots of guilt over it by your uplines, because if you quit, you’re hurting them and only making them have to work harder to find the next sucker gullible enough to fall for these “great opportunities.”

    Good luck.

  30. rin

    Joecool18, you are so right. Thanks for your comments. One of the saddest Quixtar stories I know about currently is a guy who quit college after 3 1/2 years to “own his own business” (Quixtar) full time. What a waste.

  31. Joecool18

    Of course you buy some stuff from yourself if you need it and it is a good value, but with no advertsing and only word of mouth contacts, an IBO faces almost impossible odds to build up a retail base.

    It’s why they some uplines teach you to buy 150-300 PV yourself and then sponsor others and getthem to follow.
    Problem is that in this model, you are operating like a pyramid and only a few at the top can make the bucks.

  32. Matt

    I talked with a quixstar sponser last night, kind filled with hope, kinda discusted. Say if i’m at the bottom of the totom pole, everyone is going to make a percentage off what i buy. Does anyone know how the system works good enough to figure out how much money quickstar will be paying ibo’s above me for what i’m buying? I know quixstar isn’t going to pay out more than what the product(s) i bought costed.

  33. yediyd

    It’s really this simple:

    Every business is not for every body. Sheesh. It’s the same for churches, leisure activities, sports, friendships, and everything else in life. Each person has their own personality and likes. There just may be something out there that doesn’t fit you! If it isn’t for you, just pass on it, don’t attack something you don’t fully understand.

    You have to work pretty smart and hard to be successful in Amway – in my experience, a bit harder and smarter than you would in a “regular” job or career path. This one depends only on you and your work ethic; you simply cannot ride on someone else’s laurels. I have achieved much success in the “regular” job market, but Amway is tough. It stretches you in many ways. I had to step outside of your comfort zone to meet new people! That’s why I choose to buy the products that I love and allow others to buy from me without being an “active” IBO.

    There are good and bad people involved in Amway. You should know that by now. Heck, there are good and bad folks involved in everything from government to philanthropic endeavors. You can’t let the one taint the whole, nor should you allow yourself to judge based off one encounter.

    The snap judgments and harsh arguments need to subside. Just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean it’s from Satan. And, just because you love it, doesn’t mean it’s a God-send either. So relax people. I simply encourage others to check these things out, see for themselves. People actually have brains. You don’t have to attempt to save the world with your foreknowledge and infinite wisdom of everything.

    Enjoy!
    K

  34. yediyd

    Oh, I forgot something:

    The pyramid thing just doesn’t hold true. A real pyramid scheme keeps people on the bottom from making as much as the people on the top. Well, I have someone that I showed this business plan making all kinds of money in Amway. I don’t. He does because he works the business model. I don’t because, well, I don’t. His wife was able to quit her job to be a stay at home mom! I sure wish I could do that. But I can’t, because I chose to just buy what I need and let others buy from me. I chose to do this to get good products, not to earn a living. There are many instances of this throughout Amway. You just need to ask.

    Advertising by word of mouth is some of the best advertising out there. I personally could care less what the TV or radio has to say about something. I want proof! Real people! America has many business that started out word of mouth, and grew into large success that way. Why change a good thing?

    For those of you who may not understand the plan or the model or the payment system or any other aspect of Amway, I would encourage you to ask again. Perhaps you should even seek someone else to show you. It just may be the person trying to explain it just isn’t speaking in your terminology. Not everyone is good at conveying the nuances of a presentation, you may need to hear it a couple of times or just see it from someone else. I know I’ve seen things presented in a business meetings or in person by someone who either didn’t have a grasp of the concept or just didn’t jive with my personality. I didn’t get the gist for whatever reason, but was able to review it with another person who really connected with me, my questions, or concerns. It happens to people all the time. You never know until you really check it out.

    I think you can go to the Quixtar website and seek out a local person to get more info. Don’t quote me on that.

    Best of luck!
    K

  35. DLD

    Always trust your gut, for some folks, especially myself, it is our truth meter.

    Stay out of Amway/Quixtar. Are you really going to ask every friend you have to buy overpriced products from you??

    And yes, in 1983 I was an “IBO” with Amway. I was not disappointed, and I had no illusions of making a living with this type of business. I did it for my boyfriend. But I’ll never do that again.

    I have a friend that has tried hard over the last 4 years to get me into Melaleuca with her. Almost succeeded till I realized that no one I knew made enough money to justify paying such a high price for Melaleuca’s products.

    I have the necessary “expendable” income, but I also like my RV and enjoy paying the insurance on it.

    My gut always tells me the truth, even when I really really want to ignore it. Each and every time I’ve ignored my truth, I’ve lost. Each and every time I’ve listened to it, I’ve won.

    Believe me, there are so many great things in my life I would not have experienced or have, had I not gotten quiet and listened to the truth within.

    I think you’ve heard your truth.

  36. Joecool18

    Sure, Amway/quixtar may not be for everyone, like a church or other organization. But churches and other organizations don’t deceive people into joining like amway/quixtar IBOs.

    Also, amway/quixtar is a pyramid. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to prosper. Sure you can move past your sponsor but you still need to move up the pyramid to make any serious money.

  37. cat-bird

    A great business for those that want to hound friends and family for your own persoanl gain with scripted speeches and delusions of granduer. And after those relationships have gone by the wayside with the presistant sound of a answering machine everytime you call someone close, you can loiter at the local grocery store where your attempts at small talk about the spices for stake can help you suck a misguided soul into your corporate cult.

    The only people that make big money sell the motivational tapes to the small people who have been molded into sleepless drones that hinge life on a motivational speakers words.

  38. Joecool18

    What amazes me is that upline used to lie about making money from the sale of tapes books and seminars. After the huge lie was exposed, now upline says they do make money from tools. Many IBOs accept this and say the past lies don’t affect their business.

    What is funny though, is nobody has any written compensation plan indicating how you qualify for a cut of the tools money or how much you get when you qualify.

    IMO, it’s still a shady secret business.

  39. lasun

    i went to their meeting yesterday … i had a gut feeling that this was somin flaky … readin ur opinions just confirms what i thought .. god bless america!

  40. desibabe

    I was told about this “New Exicting Business Opportunity” recently by a not so close friend. I had talked to him only 2 times before and never more than 5 minutes. Third time he met me, hugged me, made me feel that he is my best buddy and then said he has started a private business. I was happy for him and did the mistake to ask what kind of business. He invited himself to my home to discuss the business for 5 minutes. I was still naive and thought he might need my opinions in his NEW business. When he start talking and I got an idea where he is coming to. I told him that I will do some research on internet and see what people have to say about it and I was immidiately warned not to read the *FALSE* information on internet and believe just him. After reading through pros and cons of this *BUSINESS* on internet, I am very clear about what I have to do. I have decided against joining Quixstar simply bcoz I can’t deceive my friends into this business. I can convince only my close friends and relatives to be an IBO but I love my dignity more than money.
    I also listened to all the successful stories of people at top of chain but not a single word was said by anybody how exactly the money was made. What is difference b/w a discount and money earned through Quixstar products?
    As said by many, this scheme is good for those who are at top of chain and who are good at convincing others to join against their will. If you are one of them then good else think twice and educate yourself before joining

  41. ashish

    I dont know how people can comment on the business even though they dont know uts spellings,

    IT IS QUIXTAR not QUICKSTAR.

    Little knowledge is SUICIDAL

  42. Joecool18

    Haha, ashish, now matter how you spell quixtar, it’s still isn’t a good opportunity for the vast majority who register.

    IMO, most people would be better off financially staying home and watching the simpsons than getting involved in quixtar.

  43. Lana

    Bearman, did you know that one of the richest people in the world re Robert Kiosaki, admits that he could and still cannot spell! Peoples intellectuality is definatly not based on whether they can spell on not!

    Catbird, maybe the correct person did not show you the business, maybe it was someone who was a new IBO, or maybe you are one of those people who just never stops talking and therefor never listen. The reason I suspect the aforemention is that an IBO will never be sucessfull, whether to create money or freedom for themselves, if they do not help enough other people in their business to be sucessfull. I am not saying there are no thiefs in this business, there are in the majority of businesses I have seen. However this is the only business I have ever seen where so many people help others to succeed and no-one has to crush anyone in the process of getting to the top.

    Good luck to all you skeptics out there to find the vehicle that will bring you the success you wish to achive, I have found mine!

  44. Lori

    I went to a meeting one night eith my sister. The speaker was telling us how important it was to attend an out of state re-treat labor day weekend. He told us a story about a friend who told his brother that he couldn’t be his best man in his wedding one weekend because he needed to be at the retreat for quixtar. He went on to say that the guys brother understood because the meeting was about his brother’s financial future/family. WHat a bunch of bull shit!!! THese people are fuckin nuts! Yeah sorry my sister, i be in your wedding because i have to be at this stupid ass retreat in nebraska. i hope you understand.. DON’T WAIST YOUR TIME AND MONEY!

  45. johnstarr

    [quote comment="3600"]Lasun,

    I’m glad you got the information you needed to make an informed decision![/quote]

    No one can make an informed decision listening to you Joecool18. What you say is always flawed. The funny thing is you always have something to say. I would only listen to you if you make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year at what your doing. If you worked as hard to make money as you do shooting your mouth I would listen to you. You need to study basic math, percentages, and investing. If you did you would under stand the power that is given to you when you become an IBO. Quixtar is the closest way that alot of millionars make their money and investers. So if your at the bottom and don’t have much you can at least use this business as a stepping stone to get you investing in to something else like real estate. Ask your self why anyone should listen to you joecool?

  46. Anonymous

    Lori, the problem with Quikstar is that in their meeting they tell you to ignore friends and family who don’t want to go along and join. They tell you to cancel important functions and family events to go to their famous out of town meetings (by the way, you have to pay to go to that out of town meeting, and listen to people who will feed you with more of the same S#IT!)

    Believe me, I’ve been to their meetings several times…and since I haven’t joined, the person that was trying to get me to join wouldn’t even talk to me anymore.

    That is contradictory to any financial advice you get from anyone else. No financial advisor tells you to ignore and stop talking to friends and family.

    They [quikstar] compare themselves to a church with their membership being like that of a church–I’d say it’s more like an evil cult! It’s cult mentality. Just study any cult and it’s basically the same set up.

    I don’t know of any reasonable religious group/church that tells you to ignore friends and family, and believe me I have friends from lots of different faith’s.

    Lori, I feel sorry for your sister.

  47. Anonymous

    [quote comment="3686"]
    Quixtar is the closest way that alot of millionars make their money and investers. So if your at the bottom and don’t have much you can at least use this business as a stepping stone to get you investing in to something else like real estate. [/quote]

    The problem, dear Johnstarr, is that no one at the bottom of the quikstar pyramid makes money because they are spending more money than they make–isn’t that what your famous out of town meetings are for. It’s not for telling people to leave the business and start investing in real estate, but it’s for telling them to spend more money in the business and recruite more people.

    You’d better be careful what you say Johnstarr; if your fellow quikstarrers find out what you said they’re gonna come after you. You won’t be able to sit upfront in their meetings anymore and get free XS energy drink–oops, I’m sorry; I’m just assuming that you’ve made it that far. If you have, congradulations.

    I don’t know why you’re attacking joecool18. If our decision of getting out of quikstar is flawed, then so be it. We want nothing to do with quikstar and we have all reached pretty much the same conclusion, and are happy with it.

    Yes, quikstar works for some, and I’m happy for them. Part of the American dream is to be happy and make some good money. I just can’t see myself happy ignoring my friends and family.

  48. Joecool18

    Johnstarr “No one can make an informed decision listening to you Joecool18. What you say is always flawed.”

    Joe “Well then kindly point out what was flawed so we can discuss it. Why do quixtar supporters always tell me I lie or say things that are “flawed” and then are unable to point these out for me?

    Johnstarr ” Ask your self why anyone should listen to you joecool?”

    Joe “No one has to listen to me. They can read what I have to say, as well as you and determine what’s best for themselves”

  49. Joecool18

    Anonymous,

    What I said is true. In any group of IBOs, add up their expenses for meetings, tapes, etc and add up their profits. It will always be a NET LOSS as a group. I’ve done this time and again and the only way a group can profit is if they stay away from the “town meetings” and tapes, and focus on selling products.

    But selling is not what many uplines teach. They teach “buy from youuself”.

  50. Jeff

    Quixtar almost ended my marriage and left us in deeper debt than we started with. Do not recomend joining Quixtar.

  51. Cecelia

    I am so glad that i checked into Quixtar before making a decision that could negitivly impact my life. The person who was trying to sell me on it, told me they’d like to interview me for a new buisness venture. When I asked them what type of buisness it was, they could not say. What type of tasks would i be asked to do???? They could not say. We went out to dinner for the interview (a buisness exspence). They told me of their meetings and wonderful people that attend. They told me of some of the products offered. It all seemed to be so wonderful. To wonderful. I know that it isn’t for me, and i feel horrible for all of those who fell hook line and sinker into trying to make Quixtar work. As a single parent life is rough, and promises of a six figure salary for doing “nothing” sound wonderful. I just can’t see selling the idea to be as easy as it sounds.

  52. Joecool18

    Jeff,

    Good post. I recommend people not join quixtar unless they have thoroughly researched and know what they are getting into. Although the startup might be cheap, this can become an expensive undertaking when factoring the cost of the training materials, etc.

    Also, be wary of people wanting to sign you up and sicouraging you from doing research.

  53. Mrxray

    My ex-wife is getting into this Quickstar, Quixar,whatever it is. I have done some research and find that Quickstar is what they use as the name for “the business” but the company name is Quixar which is owned by Amway, even though the Quick Star High pressure cheerleading brainwashers that you have to listen to in the initial meeting will claim that they are NOT owned by Amway. In my research I have found that the FTC will not acknoweledge Quixar as a business. This in itself should make a person leary. You should research this out PRIOR To attending the mind altering initial attempt to convince you to become one of their lemmings. What it all boils down to is a mechanism to bend or go around the laws against pyramid schemes. It solely depends upon you getting a large enough and active enough group of “ants” below you to keep downward selling of their “product” A few of the products might actually be worth it, but call an apple an apple and not an orange and just admit that it is a scheme and not a true business. When they tell you to NOT listen to people in your family or to your friends then that should automatically tell you that they are not completely legit…….. of course those trying to brainwash you are ONLY trying to make their pyramid larger. SPELLING COUNTS! Grammar Counts, If LOOKING the part of a business is so important in this company, and you wear a suit, then shouldnt you also be able to communicate verbally and in writing in an intelligent manner? After all If you sound like an ignorant red-neck the fancy suit won’t help!

  54. rob

    There is so much negative talk on this blog. I am part of a new Multi-level, direct marketing company much like Quickstar called Menage Innovations and want to reply to a couple of things I have read here.

    1. Menage and Quisckstar, as well as Mary-Kay, Arbonne, Advocare, Excel Communications (now part of AT&T), and many others are multi-level direct marketing companies. When the business plan is drawn out or explained, it is in ‘pyramid’ form. The funny thing is that all of the nay-sayers work for non-direct marketing companies and they are in the true PYRAMID. The only companies which are not pyramids are the one owner/worker businesses where there is nobody under them – or only one person under them. The Pres/CEO of Exxon makes more money than anyone in the company. The VP of exxon makes less than the Pres, but more than thos under him and so on. There will never be anyone making more money than the Pres/CEO. However, in a multi-level company such as menage innovations or quickstar, someone under me can make more than me if he works harder at the ‘business’.

    2. The ‘plan’ which is shown is for a business. Robert Kiyosaki states in Rich Dad, Poor Dad that a man ‘works for his job, but his business works for him.’ I have to always be at my job making sure it goes well and cannot leverage my time. In a business, I can leverage my time and not have to ‘babysit’.

    3. People who see this type of business (touted in Feb 07 by Dave Ramsey as the ‘future of doing business’) and can be successful want their friends and family to have the same thing. Now, if my dad doesn’t want to be in Menage, then, that is fine, but I want him to see it before he says no. For the ones who do say no, I will still be friends with them bc I will not pester them to ‘join’. My mentor can lend credibility to me when I share the plan with a frined or family member – that’s just how life is, sometimes. Matter-of-fact, Coach Calipari of the Memphis Tigers can lend credibility to my company (he is a distributor) as well as can Richard Sandelin of the CDC in Washington who formulates products for us.

    4. some companies talk about the BMW/Lexus, houses, boats, trips as a motivating factor. Menage and Advocare talk about the amazing money that can be made in order to get out of debt and leverage time with your family.

    5. The ability to make amazing money in these companies is because they DO NOT spend it on outside advertising. Someone asked what is the harm of extra advertisingif they have so much money. The harm in that is that it hurts the distributors. We are the advertising and they pay us – why pay anyone else?

    6. Just bc you don’t like these types of companies (i think out of ignorance and prejudice – not negatively, you just don’t know about the credible companies out there), then, that is your right, but don’t try to make those of us in one feel like scum bc we want something better for our lives. I am a Young Life leader and want to set myself up in order to enjoy life and do YL the way I know it should be done. This can open up more time for students and be a blessing to them and the YL organization, financially.

    Sorry it is so long, but thank you.
    rob

  55. rob

    by the way, a Pyramid Business and Scheme are two different things. A Pyramid business is legal and recognize by the IRS and US Govt (Amway won their suit against the govt in the 80s when the govt tried to shut them down). A ‘scheme’ is illegal bc there is no product bought or sold – it just shuffles around money such as the internet surfing of a few years ago. All you had to do is go to internet sites and surf on them and make money. It was illegal and shut down.

    Menage Innovations as well as Quickstar and other credible companies have credible law firms working for them to make sure they are complying with laws and regulations set forth for multi-level marketing companies.

    You can check out Menageinnovations.com (my number to order any product you may like) is 896530.

    rob

  56. rob

    a pyramid ‘scheme’ is illegal and will be shut down. schemes only move money and not product. to be a legit company, you have to move product. Quickstar moves a product and some, so, it’s not a scheme.

    if you would like to check out menageinnovations.com, please do. My rep number is 896530.

    rob

  57. Mani

    HI ALL, AMWAY IS A GOOD COMPANY. NO ANY OTHER MLM CAN FIGHT. THE PRODUCT, SERVICES & THE SYSTEM (BWW) WOW WONDERFULL. I’M LOOKING FOR SOME IBO IN OTHER COUNTRY TO JOIN MY TEAM IN MALAYSIA. DO THEY’RE ANY?
    WE ARE DIAMOND’S

  58. Joecool

    A pyramid scheme is not when there is no product movement. That is a factor though. Part of a pyramid scheem is also when guys on top make their money from the partcipants and not from people outside of the pyramid.

    Mani, are you a diamond, or a “future” diamond? Surely you should know that recruiting IBOs online is a violation of Amway/Quixtar rules.

  59. BusaRider

    I couldn’t help but to chime in here.

    I see a lot of negative karma going on here about Quixtar and Am Way. I’m not a member of either, however, I do have a freind that is a member (currenty trying to get me to get in on it) and I also have a couple other colleques that are IBO’s of Quixtar as well that in the past, spun the business opportunity on me.

    I’ve done the research and I know enough about it that I feel pretty good that it is not a scam or scheme. If it were, they’d be out of business….its as simple as that. AmWay has been in business for years and is a multi BILLION dollar a year company. I’m sorry, but a company doesn’t become that huge and rich by simply scamming people. Quixtar’s way of doing business and how they generate cash flow is much the same way as AmWay. In fact, they are indeed affiliated with AmWay….but Quixtar is not AmWay…. Amway may be a parent company of Quixtar or something like that…..I’m not completely sure on that but they are affiliated. However one (Quixtar) is not the other (Amway). So, if a member of Quixtar tells you that “we are NOT Amway”, ….technically, they are correct.

    From what I see in the business, its legit. AmWay was taken to court in the 80′s because some thought it was an illegal pyramid scheme…..AmWay won….end of story. Apparently, from reading this board, there are still some that don’t want to accept that ruling.

    For the person that said…

    “IF you get to the top, you sell this stuff (CD’s…tapes…books) and that’s what brings in your money. Who’s buying them–the people at the bottom.”

    No way! So, these people at the top, that are bringing in thousands of dollars a week are getting that money from selling books and CD’s??? Please. I don’t believe that for a second. I do believe that they sell books and CD’s….but its in an effort to promote the business…not to make money on the book/CD sales. The people at the top are millionaires for goodness sakes…..they do public speaking at the monthly meetings and help sell the books/CD’s to promote the business to new IBO’s so that the money keeps flowing for them. Nothing wrong with that. If they wanted, they have enough money they could quit….retire in the foothills somewhere and never be seen again.

    For the person that wanted to know more about Quixtar products…

    My friend (Quixtar IBO) showed me the website (only members have access) and there are products from just about every major brand of every kind/type of product you can think of. The products on their website are not off the wall junk….its name brand stuff that you and I buy everyday from stores such as Sears, Bass Pro Shops, Wal-Mart, etc..etc…
    The prices aren’t that great….still about the same that you would pay at any retail store.

    Like I said before, I have two other friends/collegues that are also Quixtar IBO’s and tried to get me in the business about 5 years ago. The one I worked with everyday….at the time he had been in the business about a year and a half and told me that he anticipated retiring in “about 6 months”. He moved to a different plant a few month later and I haven’t seen him since….so I can’t confirm that he did retire off of Quixtar. However, he was an honest friend that wouldn’t jive or BS me….so I honestly believe that he did retire….he was 35.

    So, why didn’t I join? Well, in all honesty…like another person already stated….I just didn’t think it fit me well. You have to talk to people all the time and you have to be willing to put in the time. I also didn’t like that I had to pressure or try and talk someone else into forking out $250 dollars for initial startup fee. Right away, I can tell most people are going to get defensive about that and right away think they are being scammed out their money.

    For the fella that stated…

    “99.99% of the people that join will come out with less money than they started with”.

    You know what, you might be right….and I’ll tell you why. Because they didn’t put in the work and time to be successful at this type of business. To be blunt….its their own damn fault. This is not a business where you pay the initiation fee and then watch as the money comes rolling in. I believe you really have to want it and be willing to put in the time and effort to get it. Most people don’t do that….and thats why they fail. That goes for just about any endeavor that you persue.

    Furthermore, there are a lot of expenses that a Quixtar IBO has to front….such as traveling expenses to the monthly meetings and speeking to potential new IBO’s, possibly communication expenses with a business phone and such, promotional books/CD’s, etc, etc… However, all these expenses are for the business, therefore are TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

    I probably won’t join, but the all the negativity on this thing is beyond me. If it doesn’t fit you…like I don’t think it fits me…then don’t join. If you’re one of those people that’s too afraid to take chances and go outside your comfort zone….well, still don’t knock a legit business.

  60. Joecool

    Busarider,

    You’re right. The problem isthat IBOs often times are deceptive about what they are promoting. They call it a revolutionary ecommerce business, or they have other fancy names and they avoid being straight up and saying it’s quixtar.

    And you’re right, many people do end up getting lazy. IMO quixtar is not a good opportunity but how do you think people get the idea that it’s an easy way to everlasting wealth? It’s promoted that way!

  61. David

    I just got back from my first meeting. When my future mentor (if I decide to join) talked with me the first time I was extremely skeptical, but I listened to what he had to say. I admit I didn’t total grasp what exactly their business was all about or what my role would be. This skepticism, however, has subsided because this meeting really painted a clear picture of what this company is about..and its brilliantly simple for those who can accept that it is real, but only as real as you make it. Now, I am still very much new to this idea, but it doesn’t take a genius to realize that this is legitimate as long as you work for it. This is a business where you have limitless potential – but it certainly isn’t free. First of all you have to have the natural “salesman” skill, and this in no way a negative thing. To be successful you have to be open to meeting new people and then be able to give them a clear and understandable explanation. This accounts for the largest reason for failure…just not being the right kind of person. And who, by the way, suggested that you have to “walk over your friends and family”…the guy that introduced me I had never met before – we ended up speaking for over an hour. And he didn’t pressure me…he simply asked that I go to the meeting to see if it was right for me. If it isn’t then so be it…he can’t MAKE me join, only I can do that. Plus, it is in his best interest to teach and mentor me because the better I become the more both he and I make. That is why they refer to it as a “team.” You people who spout off about what you don’t understand should just shut up and quit spreading your negative comments. You are like film critics, Dumb and Dumber wasn’t recieved well by some critics and they bashed the hell out of the movie. This happens to be my favorite movie and I believe there are those who would share my opinion. Just because you don’t like it or can’t do it doesn’t mean that someone else shouldn’t or can’t. It’s like you saying “I can’t swim so you can’t either.”

  62. Joecool18

    David,

    One thing mostly everyone does before getting involved in a business, do some reseacrh. Find out if your future mentors are doing what they are advertising. Ask to see their tax returns (business schedule C, not their personal
    returns). Their refusal to cooperate with this request would be a big red flag.

    In my experiences, it is in fact the expenses for tapes/cds, books and seminars that is the cause of losses for many IBOs. Keep your eye on your expenditures.

    If you research and conclude it’s still a good deal for you, the go for it and best of luck to you.

  63. BusaRider

    ” First of all you have to have the natural “salesman” skill, and this in no way a negative thing. To be successful you have to be open to meeting new people and then be able to give them a clear and understandable explanation.”

    This is why I am certain that I would not be successful in this sort of business. However, I’m still not completely sure that I will not join in. The tax benefits of writing all sorts of stuff off as “business expenses” might be too good to pass up. I’m already getting raped by the IRS every year so I can use all the write offs I can get. My friend is supposed to catch up with me this weekend and we’re going to one of the meetings. I’ll make my decision after the meeting.

    JoeCool…how is wanting to see a Quixtar IBO’s tax returns going to really prove anything?? If the guy is well off….you’ll know it….you don’t need to see his/her tax returns. Most IBO’s aren’t rich….but I’m sure they are probably making something on Quixtar or atleast trying….point being that in most cases, the tax return isn’t going to prove much most of the time one way or the other. As for all the books/cd’s that you “have to” buy…..no, you don’t have to buy them. I’m pretty sure they are at the IBO’s discretion if they want to buy them or not….and like I said, its tax deductible anyway. I know that IF I do decide to join, I’m not buying any books, CD’s or DVD’s… I’ll be in it for the tax write-offs….anything I make after that…IF I make anything… will just be a bonus.

  64. Joecool18

    Busarider,

    An IBOs “business” tax returns are important. So many IBOs speak of “success” in the quixtar business, yet when asked for proof of such quixtar success, all they can produce is a check from some upline they don’t even know. You don’t know if an IBO is successful because of their job, or other businesses.

    Nobody in their right mnd would purchase or get involved
    in a conventional business without REQUIRING proof of business income.

    I don’t suggest you ask for their personal income tax returns as proof, only the schedule C, which is basically their profit/loss statements for the quixtar portion.

  65. Gaurav Dave

    Hi all,
    I had attended two seminars of Quixtar. One of the x person with whom I came in contact accidentally, had told me to attend that. I work in IT sector and I was told that there were going to be lots of IT professionals. But, when I attended the seminar there was nothing like IT talks. That was all about getting in to Quixtar business.
    I attended two seminars and finally I quit because I saw something fishy. I made few observations during the seminars which I would like to share with you.

    1) All people are dressed with suit, tie and formal. I was also forced to dress the same. When I asked the question why should I dress in formals with tie and suit? I was given answer that it makes to attract everyone towards you.
    – Comments: Why should someone need to dress attractively just to attract people toward your business? If Business strategy is good then people will join you any how. Dressing properly is OK but, suit, tie etc. are compulsory and that is too much for me and it is hypocrisies.

    2) During the seminar person always talked about joining the business but, he never explained what the business model is. I had to visit one of the IBO personally to know that.
    – Comments: Why should someone hide the business model they use? It should be explained straight forward.

    3) In Seminar they told that this business takes no time to spend. You can spend as much time as you want with your family.
    - Comments: I do not believe that you can succeed in any business if you do not spend much time. You have to work like anything to make your any business successful. In this business to need to make new contacts and you need to convince them to join with you. All these take time at least for people like me it takes I do know if it works so easy for the other people.

    4) In Seminar they told that you do not need to spend much on running your business model. Only you need to spend 200$ per month.
    – Comments: You need to spend more that 200$ to get more points. You need to purchase all products from Quixtar to gain points. That means even if you can get something cheaper from other place still you need to buy that product from quixtar. Moreover you have to convince all of your friends to do same if you want more points.

    Only one thing I like that is money back guarantee. So, person who likes to try new things just for experience and have some time to spend on it that can definitely try this out. I do not believe in that so I didn’t try.
    By the way I would honestly like to ask all the people who are involved in this business model that is this thing really work for all? People say that you do not to spend much time. Just spend 4 / 5 hours a week and it will work. Is it possible? Weather money comes so easily? Please give me the honest opinion.

    - Gaurav Dave
    - gydave2000@gmail.com

  66. Jane Noblett

    My husband, a radar specialist for the F.A.A. was installing navaids equipment in the Alaskan bush when I borrowed $20 from the grocery budget to buy the literature portion to get into Nutrilite,bc I couldn’t afford to buy the cosmetics at retail. When readidng the literature, it said: see five clients and sell each $20.
    Now, I thought, who are they kidding and ready to turn back the lit and pay $20 back to the G budget before my husband came back to town and realized I had taken from the G budget.
    I didn’t like my upline stalling and telling me to show the make up and a couple cleaners I bought to my friends in the trailer court where we lived. She also gave me a few phone numbers people had dropped in a box during the Fur Rendezvoux.
    To my surprise, my friends bought enough for me to purchase the make up kit and I phoned the leads given by my wise upline and even took my daughter, 8 then. The facial scrub had honey in it and one of the customers broke out from head to ankles. Oh I was embarassed, Still, I didn’t just sell $100, I profited over a hundred
    from that one facial, besides ladies there booking future facials with more friends.
    I did something because I was scared not realizing it was a good business practice. After I sold a product, I called back to find out if they liked it or should I refund them. The call reminded some to use the products, others wouldn’t return the products unless I wanted to be shot.
    Notice, I read and educated myself, bought cassetes and listend, and followed up on leads. I didn’t become rich, but started having my daughter’s and my hair done. Then I sat goals. First: a Blueback fur seal Parka. Then a new car, a simple Dodge Dart. But, I learned a fringe benefit, I didn’t have to sell to anyone I didn’t like. But I didn’t invite anyone to join my business. I didn’t want them to think I was making money off of them. Boy did I ever have a lot to learn, particularly when Nutrilite was bought out by a couple distributors who had gotten out of Nutrilite and started Amway. Yep, that was Jay VanAndel and Rich DeVoss. I didn’t know those guys off in some little town called Ada.

    I went to a few meetings and stood close to those blabber mouth Amway distributors. Close, because I wanted to smell their clothes. Well, besides being clean, they smelled good. Surely, they weren’t using the Amway soap. So still, I was going to get out of the business, but not until I bought the Amway cookware at wholesale. Buy this time, I’d been in the business ten years, and the only distributors I had were clients that had been super nice to me. So I offered to let them in to buy wholesale. But I wanted to fill my 3600 sq ft house with Ethan Allen furniture.

    To do that, I would need to use the same business thinking Orvile Crock used with McDonalds. One store won’t serve the whole town, nor can I do it all by myself, I needed distributors. Luckily when growing up in a Drug Store in a small Mo. farm town, my dad told me, If you take care of your dimes, you’ll never have to worry about your dollars. Man! I worked hard to help the new distributors build a good business. But the very people I’d brought in that needed money desperately wouldn’t work to help themselves.

    I went to seminars and became excited. At home, my husband told me that building the business wasn’t something I could do, it was for educated people. After letting my emotions bounce like a yo yo, you can do it, you can’t do it, and trying “the plan of the month” that guess speakers told us how to build our business I still wasn’t growing.
    So I decided to stay home with my young daughters and do daycare for my three grand children, and not annoy my husband with my wild dreams. But what I did do, was listen to the tapes by who had built the business better than anyone else, funny guy Rich DeVos. I became very selective who I shared the business with, because I wanted to surround my family with positive people I trusted.
    Other people brought their kids for me to watch, The parents got into the business. I did it discreetly without my husband realizing I was building the business. My doctor, my dentist, my banker,and then my lawyer got in. They understood the marketing plan and saw the jobers, the advertisers, the managers, and wholesalers were cut out and that money is paid to the distributors.
    If someone in their group is making 22%, the direct distibutor will be paid 25% and only make 3% of their business volume. But we love the ones who want to play with the business and only do a couple hundred, Directs pay them 3% and make 22% for managing and training them. When a gruop under you reaches the 25% level, they break away from you, but you earn management fee of 3% My lawyer and I decided to practice talking to strangers about the business.
    The books and tapes I had bought taught we have a great amount of control over our lives and could select who we want to meet. So in the grocery store, I saw this nice looking man in a suit by the meat counter. We started talking about different cuts of meat, until the lawyer came back to us. Then I approached him about the business. We told him it had the highest rating with Dunn and Bradstreet.

    He said, “I’ll bet you it’s Amway.”
    “Yah, how did you know.”
    “Because I work for Dunn and Bradstreet. Who you need to approach is the lawyers.”
    He was dumbfounded when we started laughing, until Phylis told him she was a lawyer and we had appointments with several others.
    Three months after I stopped doing daycare for the 3 grandkids in 1979, I quilified as Silver Direct, but kept it quiet. But 3 months later, I qualified for gold direct. When the telegrams and airline tickets came and the red carpet rolled out, my husband realized I made Gold Direct. Within 3 months, I qualified for profit sharing. That’s when Amway buys Mutual Funds for you.

    About six months later, It was about 9 pm when the phone rang to place an order, and I sqeeled, “We made it. We made it” My husband asked if I was having trouble qualifying for profit sharing. I leaned back in the barstool at the kitchen snack bar and let out a deep breath and sigh of relief. “No, I just made Ruby Direct.”

    We moved into “my Dream home” in 1970, and in May 1982 we owned the clear title. The most I’ve made in profit a month is near $6000
    But Amway means more than money. When you work it, you succeed, and it gives you confidence. Back in the ’60′s, I’d fixed a nice dinner for one of my husband’s co-workers and his wife. When I couldn’t pronounce a word, my husband told me to shut up and let someone talk that knew how to pronunce it. That sure killed any thought of me ever standing on stage talking to people.
    But when I hit Ruby, and the big guys from Amway were here, the MC asked if any new Rubies were in the house. All excited I went on stage. He asked how I was. After I said, “Excited.” He pulled the mike back.
    I want you to know, I reached in his hand and took that mic saying, “You don’t ask a new Ruby how they are and take the mic back. ” About a thousand people roared with laughter.

    What I told them was, I was like many of them. I had wondered if the products really worked and were less expensieve because they are concentrated and do more cleaning than super market products. I wondered if people on stage were telling it like it really was. I told about the time Amway found out one of its venders had shorted some jewely of the right amount of gold and asked that we return it. When I didn’t hear from them, I called. They didn’t receive it. It must have gone down on ship that sank in Cook Inlet. They took my word and sent me over $2000. Try that at Wal Mart. If they were wondering how to get to the higher levels, it’s like eating an elephant. Just one bite at a time.

    Some things we don’t have control over, such as rapist lurking around schools to assault tiny ones, or breaking into to homes in the wee hours of morning to wake a family by beating the mother and 3 kids with an electricians hammer. He came back to terrorize for eleven months before apprehended and sentenced to 30 years. But what Child Protection Services did was worse. There were also 3 family members with terminal cancer. My husband was one of them. Yeah, he could smart off without thinking what he was saying, but it was the good things he did that kept us married for 37 years.
    This last is another part of Amway. The distributors are the ones that put their arms around my family and me. They cried when I couldn’t cry for fear of loosing all control and never stopping crying. Oh, 3 grandkids and I waged a successful lawsuit against the wrongful acts of Child Protection. That was because it was badly needed to be done. As defacto guardian/grandmother it was understood from the beginning I wouldn’t receive any money. It was for damage done to 3 kids. I went against 70 social workers, the director and the commissioner. I’m only five foot, but Amway helped me not be afraid.

    I’ve had my dream home by myself now for 20 years. I got sick with pancraeitis, diabetes, and cronic congestive heart failure and goofed off and didn’t renew. That’s why I looked it up. I want back in that business. By not renewing for several years, I may not get my group back, but who knows, Amway bends the rules to help the distributors. That pretty well blows that pyrimid theory out of the water. Pull a block out and it know longer looks like one. Also, when I was in, I passed up the person who invited me in. It happens all the time, particularly when those $200 a month distributors
    jabber with a construction worker that knows the governor, that knows plenty bankers.

    So please, don’t hurt people’s future by saying bad things about something you don’t understand. I’ll leave you with two thoughts that became a part of my life. The first is from SEE YOU At The Top, by Zig Zigler: “You can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want.” Think about it. If you help your boss make a profit, you’ll keep you job. If you help your kid to be a stand up adult, you’ll be proud and content.

    Second thought is from the master mind, Rich DeVoss Senior. “Keep life in the proper priorities, your God, your family, your country, and then your job.” You better believe Rich never put Amway befor God, Country or even the distributors.

    Thanks for your time, and please don’t hurt others by discouraging them to do something that can be one of the greatest things that happened to them.
    Jane

  67. Jane Noblett

    P S

    Even though I’ve been out of the business for four or five years, I still earn percentage and dividends on what Amway paid to me in profit sharing. See when you fool around and don’t renew and no longer a distributor, Amway doesn’t take away what you worked for.

    Also, did you know that if you build just three groups doing the 25% level and you die, your children will inherit the business. That can be a tidy sum because of all the different ways of making money.

    Retail: from 15% to 35% depending on the product.
    Now let’s clear up some more false information: $200 is soley used as an example to show the marketing plan. No one is forced to buy $200, but at that level, the distributor gets his first 3% of the wholesale portion. If you have ten doing $200, one with a group doing $15,000. Another distributor and his group doing $25,000, and two groups doing 800, you’re at 7600 and the 25% of wholesale. If your consistant, you earn profit sharing.

    When your group does $20,000,you recieve another percent.

    Have 3 groups doing $10,000 each and you earn 3% of $30,000, plus your retail, wholesale, profit sharing, and now an Emerald bounus that can well add up to hundreds of thousands.

    Plus that you have the Diamond, Double Diamond, Tripple Diamond, and Crown Direct bonuses. Yeah, some people can averaqge $50,000 a month.
    Also expense paid trips back to headquarters, that includes air fare, hotel, limos and little touching things. In my room was a horn a plenty basket of fruit with a card. The card is what got me. It read, “Enjoy the fruits of your labor.” Signed Jay VanAndel and Rich DeVoss.

    See Rich and Jay don’t GIVE US A BUSINESS. They give everyone a business opportunity at whatever level they desire to build it.
    If they want to do $200 a monlth, that’s fine. No one is going to beat them over the head to do more. For many months during illness, I did nothing, but never recieved one scolding.

    When I worked, they kept giving me praise, and more money, and more money. I’ve bought a lot of gifts and some very nice gold and platinum coins, but still haven’t spent all that I earned in Amway.
    There’s still that profit sharing making me money.

    I only hit the first of the lower levels, but I have my home, I never worked a holiday, or if something was going on with my children, grandchildren at school, or any of their birthdays.
    Amway teaches you to put those things on your calendar first, so you don’t get busy and forget them.

    It is a family oriented business. when my middle daughter was ten, she loved being a secretary and making out the distributors bonus checks. That’s changed now, but her name was on the business account with a healthy 20 grand a month going through it.

    When she was about 15, three of her friends decided to leave home and wanted my daughter to go with them. One girl hocked things from her mother’s store, including nice stereos, TVs, etc. Another girl illegally signed her mother’s name on a large business check. The third girl cashed the money where her parents had set up a savings account for her. The three caught a plane and ran a couple thousand miles away. She couldn’t make herself betray the trust and confidence I’d given her.

    To finish this, it is not the complete marketing plan. It is only to give you a better idea of how money is earned.

    Whenever a marketing plan is given, the new person is to recieve the marketing plan brochure explicitly detailing the bonuses mentioned above and the highest ever paid along with the averages. Any distributor who doesn’t hand one out is a fool, because all of us like to dream of having a good size of money, and I found the brochure to start big dreams. THE MAIN REASON IT’S GIVEN, IT KEEPS AMWAY AN ETHICAL AND HONEST BUSINESS FOLLOWING ALL FAIR TRADE RULES, AND FROM DISTRIBUTORS EXAGERATING, AND PROVING THEIR HONESTY.

    I’m not in the business right now, but I hope someone sees this and gets in and enjoys all the fun of camp outs and playing great family games of meeting the King, and learning to fly without a plane.
    One of the greatest rewards is seeing people you invited into the business finally getting out of life what they want. In my eldest daughter it built confidence. Some people ust like the coffee and cookies and the social aspects. Finally they meet nice friends.

    I’m seventy one now, but when I get back in, it will be with the people I was originally with, or with one of the distributors I invited in. Gee, all those distributors have been there sense the eighties, and do fine without me. They read the books and listen to the tapes and pick out what will benefit them most. If they need more info, help is there from other distributors or Amway itself.

    Don’t let the nay sayers steal your dreams. Go for it. Go as far as you want. Someone above critisized a fellow above for his spelling and grammar. Hey buddy, I’ve seen people with speach impediments do great. If they can’t talk well, they invite in people who can. A guy named Dick Osinger is blind. He invites in people who can see. When asked how far he and his wife, Dee, lived from Seattle, he said about 45 minutes out, Dee said, “No, No, it’s an hour and half drive.” Dick “looked” at her and said, “It just depends on whose driving…her or me.”

    Yeah, it’s hard work having fun making money with friends and associates. Oh, and knowing no boss is going to fire you for having fun acting silly, or because you took weeks off for a sick baby, or months for crimes committed against your family, or when people have cancer. At those times, the work I’d done before kept the money rolling in.

    When I was giving the marketing plan in another state,(I had distributors in several of the lower 48, Japan, Germany, and Canada,) I said, “I can’t read, write, or spell, so I was made to be a supervisor.”
    A fellow in the first row had a speach impediment and said, “Her may not be able to read, write or spell, but her sure can figure. I like those dollars.”

    The business is kept at a very low fee to get in to make it available to all who want an opportunity, regardless of being an over educated nuclear scientist, Attorney General of the U. S. or
    movie actor Ron Stokes speaking at my Ruby banquet. He was invited in the business by Ben Cooper, the last person living from the long playing series, Bonanza. His wife, Pam, is one of the Ray Conif singers.

    Now tell me, why are these people, including Pat Boone, staying in Amway if it isn’t way above board business. I know why, but the nay sayers letting their mouth overload their brain don’T.

    So instead of saying dumb things, help others to be the best they can. As Ziggy Zigler writes, “You can have anything you want if you help enough others get what they want.”
    See you at the top
    Jane

  68. Joecool

    Jane, there are some “issues” with your story. First of all, if you don’t renew, you don’t get paid anything.

    Secondly, if you build three legs to 25% and “walk away”, the 50%+ attrition rate will make sure you don’t earn much once you “walk away”.

    I was visiting a quixtar website recently. I asked how many quixtar diamonds attended diamond club with year. The answer was 160. That includes about 20 newly qualified diamonds. That doesn’t sound like very many get to “walk away” does it?

  69. Carlos

    Do not forget he mandatory wealth robbing CD’s, tapes and books you have to buy. Tools of the trade? Hmmm????

    I like the ebay way, “do not buy until you have already have sold a product to a customer”….AND the firm drop ships and packages the product you sell to the customer. You never physically see the product, only the customer. Hence NO INVENTORY!

  70. Jane Noblett

    Hi,

    I hit some key that took away my first reply before I finished it. Maybe it will show on here later, so at this time, I’ll finish what I started to say, and if it doesn’t show up, I’ll rewrite it.

    I cut myself off when talking about littigitimate complaints concerning Dexter and Birdie Yager and the Brit groups over selling books, tapes, and their religeous beliefs, and my third favorite book I liked to use in the Amway business, Between Parent and Child. Yep, it’s a book on raising kids without insulting them. It sounds off the wall, but in reality we are all kids at heart, none of us like to be critisized, insulted, or embarrassed.

    By the time we’re adults, you’d think we’d know how to talk to kids and other adults. Truth is: we often say cutting and hurting things without meaning to.

    Here’s what I learned from that book to handle it when my teen grandson was living with me and wrecked my car. First, I never asked him how he did it. I wasn’t about to insult, embarrass, berate, put him in a position to lie, excuse or defend himself by asking how, or why. None of those situations would solve the problem. So let him use my credit card again to get my car fixed. Yeah, my credit card, the same one I let him use the day after he got his truck and wrecked it. Sounds generous and possibly foolish.

    Well, every month, he had to pay on the credit card including the interest. He saw how quick the interest is money he pays to someone for very little service. When he got his truck, In my name, I told him, if when he was 18 and left on good terms, I’d put the truck in his name, if not, I would sell it, pay off the credit card he used and give him what was left over.

    A couple years later, because he thought he was so smart, he acted d dumb and left on bad terms. So I kept my word and sold his truck, his first truck, the most beautiful and best truck in the world. Oh, he hated me and bad mouthed me to the whole family.

    But by the age of twenty two, he had his own house and 3 trucks, one for work, one to shine and draw people’s attention, and one for professionally racing.

    When he was sixteen, I gave him his first rare coins. Many a time, we sat around the table loaded with coins and looking at the official grading book to grade our coins from 1 to 70 according to their condition.

    He’ll be 30 in June, but he became excited again over coins a couple weeks ago. So during this time, I spent any place from an hour to eight hours on a saturday helping him with grading and investing into gold, silver, and platinum rare coins. Talk about a close relationship between a grandson and grandma, we have it. I’m surely glad, I didn’t embarrass, humiliate, or give him reason to lie, defend or become defiant when he wrecked my car.

    How’s that play into business? When a distributor borrowed a book and I was sure they hadn’t returned it, I told them I’d look for it again, but if they ever found it to bring it to me. They did. I’ve always been glad that I didn’t argue, insult, or insist that I was right.

    That’w just one common sense thing that we often forget but essentual in business and to build solid relationships in our families.

    I probably gave away as many books and tapes as I sold to distributors for the same cost I paid for them at bookstores or elsewhere.

    Going back to my vanishing post and Dexter and Birdie Yager, and the Britt’s goups. As much as I love Amway, I wouldn’t get into their groups even if they paid me. Nor would I ever be a motivational speaker for them or anyone in their groups.

    Rich and Jay have a differant faith than my Irish Catholic faith. But they have never imposed their faith on me through personal meetings, tapes or books. The most they mention about faith is keeping priorities straight. God, your family, your bread and butter job, then Amway.

    They have repeatedly reprimanded Dexter, and the Britts, and enfatic about none of us using the podium for a pulpit. This is a business and is to be treated like a business, not a religeous affair. As I look back, I doubt that a majority of distributors don’t know of what faith that I am, only that I “try” most of the time, to practice the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would want done to you.

    Actually, Christ said it’s the second greatest Commandment, “Love you neighbor as yourself. Man, in reality that’s darn hard. It means I can’t envy their Jaguar, lust after their hunk of a husband, bad mouth or say petty things about them, or wish they’d fall on their butts in business. It also means not to pressure them into believeing like I do.

    Again, in Between Parent and Child it says something about kicking your child in the chins then asking them to polish your shoes. Wots & wots of luck getting them to do it or anything else you want them to do, after kicking them.

    Now Carlos, I wish you the best on Ebay, sincerely, because I have one daughter who is a single parent and could use more income, and another one who has limited mobility. Most jobs require standing or sitting for long times and she is unable to do either.

    The thought has come to me to look into Ebay. So why don’t you give me more detail about it. Is it multi-level. I’m a firm believer in working the Sears, Penny’s, Texaco, Mobile Oil, Ray Crock’s franchise, less the thousands of dollars for the franchise and producing a minimum in sales. Bisides, I like to determine how much hamburger I put on a bun without someone dictating the amount.

    I might be interested in encouraging my daughters into getting into your line. But I’ll tell you up front my biggest hesitation of doing that is you already kicked me in the shins by bad mouthing something I know to be great for those who use common sense in working the Amway plan. To help you, you might want to read and study the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. Or Between Parent and Child becasue it will help you see how we all are kids in the inside. If you truly study either of, prefably both books, you’ll gain the maturity you need to sound more professional, and realize it’s bad business to knock anyone’s job or profession. All that does is insult them. People don’t want to work with other’s who insult them.
    Besides, insults have a way of returning whether in family, work, or even politics.

    Look at the millions John Kerry spent of his and his wife’s money from the Heinze ketsoup co. But, insults he made back in the sixties against the Vietnam soldiers jumped up and bit him in the butt.

    His mouth didn’t only cost him multi-millions he won’t ever get back, it cost him the presidential election.

    One time, I was giving a Christmas show for one of my distributors, and demonstrated the cookware. One lady asked if we gave discounts if they had a show. Then asked if there was a discount, for buying so many? After the show, I told my distributor, she wasn’t asking just about discounts, she wants to know how to get into the business. The distributor said I could ask her if I wanted to, but she couldn’t because she and her husband were going outside for the Christmas holidays.

    I asked for her phone number, and did everything the pretentious biggies in Amway told me not to do. Madeline already knew it was Amway, but I gave her only half of the marketing plan over the phone.Luckily, I had listened enough to tell her what she would need to do to get what she wanted, and was inviteded to come to her home for lunch and to show her the marketing plan.

    I was shocked when I found out her last name. If I had known it, I would have never offered the business to her. First of all, she had 16 living kids. I would have felt that anyone with that many kids would never have a minute to do the business. Second, her brother-in-law was the governor. Surely, she wouldn’t need me, or my little soap business. Third, her husband had a super large construction company building A to Z malls and all the in between ones.
    What I did right was show her profits on the cookware, and how many she need to sell to have a free one. Between her husband and brother -in-law, they owned a bunch of the major properties in town.
    One block alone is a parking garage for a major hotel covering the next city block. They also had a big shoe store. So with that kind of money floating around, I would have been too intimidated to invite her into the business, had I known who I was talking to.

    See, she was ahead of me. She could see selling her brother-in-law fifty gallon drums of cleaners for the hotel kitchen, and other cleaners for the halls and rooms. She knew what she spent in soap for her kids, and that half of them were married. Instead of ranking on how rotten our police force is, She invited her married daughter and policeman husband into the business. Good thing we didn’t kick policeman in the shins. HEY, you got any idea of how profitable it can be to have have the police force in your business. Sixteen kids, became a $5000 a month distributor.

    Now, I am serious about looking for things for my daughters. All I know about Ebay is: I wanted to sell some coins and antiques and answered a pop up about selling on Ebay. A fellow phoned and was all excited until I told him I couldn’t promise to work a few hours a week. Some weeks, my health won’t allow me to sit at the computer for more than a few minutes. When he heard that, he was up front enough to tell me it probably wasn’t something I could do.

    Now why don’t I have my daughters get into Amway? One, whines and makes too many excuses. Both are healing some hard knocks and criminal attacks on the family. As I said before, I became selective of who I invite into the business. Sometimes, family wants more freebies than distributors expect.

    They know I don’t intend to build the business when I get back in. But when they have healed a little more, I may sujest it if they invite the prospects here.

    Anyway Carlos, I want to see you at the top in Ebay.
    Jane.
    Ps
    Carlos. we never handle fifty gallon drums, or autos, or 10,000 of other products that are drop shipped.

  71. Jane Noblett

    Joecool,

    The vanished reply popped back up, so here it is:

    If you don’t renew, you don’t make a percentage from your group, but Amway doesn’t take back the profit sharing you earned and still pays you interest on it. So even though I didn’t renew for years, I’m still earning interest on profit sharing. In many companies, if you quit or are fired, you can’t Keep YOur IRAs with the company or transfer them to a new one.

    Secondly, if you have 3 groups doing 25% and you become ill or want’ to retire for a few years, whoevever invited you in is guaranteed 3% of 7500 for the time they spent helping you build the business. That makes the business solid so they don’t loose. But if the other two groups are Rubies doing $30,000 each, you’ll earn 3% of $60,000 volume, or $120 pluw profit sharing, emerald bonus. This can well be above an average salary.

    As said before, it is mandatory to give a potential distributor a brochure with the marketing plan showing the average Ruby, Pearl, Emerald and diamond bonuses, plus profit sharing. Now here’s something you may not realize. Profit sharing is the only bonus not guanteed, but Amway has paid out profit sharing every year they have been in business.

    That is increditably remarkable considering most people invest hundredes of thousands of dollars into a new business where the majority fail within two years. It’s further remarkable considering corporations like Chrsyler, and Ford routinely do not show a profit. Oh, but to help these corporations, Amway distributors also buy and market autos. I only sold one to L. W. but, he was so pleased that he couldn’t get it from Redding or other discount places that he asked to get into my business.

    Take into consideration that Amway is a family owned business that is paid for.If we have a big depression like the Great Depression that started in 1929 and lasted until the mid-forties, Amway may need to go public and sell shares, but they won’t be hurt like other companies, like big auto dearlers and the electonics world who are up the ying yang in debt.

    Think about GMC laying off people who have mortages on their cars, homes and credit cards full of clothes, gas, and vacations. Sadly, times have changed and our nation lives on credit and can tumble like a sandcastle in a serious depression.

    In the Great Depression banks forclosed on homes. Grapes of Wrath is a story that details much about The Depression. The way that Amways marketing plan is set up, it encourages people not to live beyond their means and be financially solid. It also helped me to convince my husband to have our cars, home, and burials paid for so we wouldn’t leave debts for our family to inherit. I don’t claim to be wealthy, just an average person, but having everything paid for and a nice savings does put us someplace in the top 10 or 2%.

    Now honestly, what do you think would happen to our nation if the motor companies, airlines, travel industry, and
    Silicone Valley would go belly up?

    So if you pay a small fee for your Amway kit, and the company has rules against buying more than you can sell, they are keeping the companoy creditable and helping you to build a solid business instead of living beyond your means. Anyone who fudges and works around these rules is a dishonest fool.

    On the third part about the number of Diamonds, it isn’t clear what you’re saying. But Diamonds are not forced to attend any seminar or convention, however it would be foolish not to since it is an all expense paid trip to exoctic places like Rio DeJanerio, and on one of Amways 3 or more personal Yacts, or go to the worlds yacht sailing Islands of which Amway owns Peter Island.

    Keep in mind, few people working a small business or for someone else, working hard to afford to go to electrical engineering school and up the GS laddler for The Federal Aviation Administration, can’t afford these kind of vacations.

    Another thing to consider, how many doctors, dentist, lawyers, CEO’s have the time to go on extended vactions? Amway affords you the time and the money to do things you couldn’t ordinarily do.

    My dentist got in because his back was giving out, and he wanted a secure income. Yeah, like medical doctors, dentist pay thousands of dollars to go to fine colleges, work hard at their profession fooling around in dirty mouths, or the other end, only to find the constandt strain of leaning over takes a tole on their backs. We have a one armed dentist here, but like I told Gordie, I’m sure not going to let him work on me if he’s blind.

    Oh, I know how easy it is to get excited about the Amway marketing plan and want to tell everyone about it, but if you’re working the business right, you won’t invite anyone in unless you know how you can help them get what they want. It’s like I keep telling my kids the Ziggy quote, “You can get anything you want, if you help enough other people get what they want.”

    When you invite anyone into the business, you need to know what they want and how you can go to work helping them get that dream. They aren’t your employees. You made a promise to help them build a business. Far too many people invite others in not holding up their end to help them. Some go ahead and listen to the tapes, read books and go to seminars.

    Carlos, if you read the Amway marketing plan you’ll see it is not mandatory to buy one darn product, including books and tapes. In Amway you build your inventory a little at a time so you can have on hand what regular clients in your group buy on a consistant basis. Having the inventory is smart business.

    First, as I mentioned the Great Depression, during it people still needed to brush their teeth, use deoderant, wash their dishes, and do laundry. If a kid smears the toothpaste all over the bathroom walls, the client doesn’t want to wait 3 days for a cleaner, or to brush their teeth. If you don’t have it on hand, the client will think they can’t depend on you as a good business person to supply their products and hurry to the store.

    Sometimes, Long shoreman and truckers go on strike and stores can’t get their products. I remember back when long shoreman went on strike. The isles of the grocery stores were full of bread and potato chips made in Alaska, but Amway distributors delivered regular and those needed and new products. Amway flew them in at their expense. We gained a bundle of clients because of the strike.

    If one would happen and the air lines went on strike too, no problem, Amway would use their own fleet of planes or sub it out to FedX, another company that looked at how slow government postal was and what business people wanted and worked to help them. Look up FedX’s growth and profit. Nicely done by a thinking man willing to help others get what they want.

    How many millionairs do you find working for our government postal system. How many people at higher levels of the F A A earn a $100 g a year? I do believe the Administrator is the highest level and that is a GS 16. I don’t know what he earns, but a GS 13 in every Civil Service job I know, doesn’t earn annualy a $100, g.

    Now I was only a Ruby, but earned more than my husband. When I was working as a waitress and paying all of our bills when he was going to Electrical Engineering School at Missouri University, I sure din’t think years later, I would be making more than him. I wouldn’t have if I’d listened to him when he said to make it to the upper levels of Amway, you nedded an education so you could talk to educated people on their level, particularly a business degree.

    Getting a business degree doesn’t show you how not to overstock or buy too many books stores have for sale. It doesn’t give you an education about living beyond your means to impress others. What you get from Amway is one of the most sound marketing plans ever developed. It’s a market plan that business people understand. After I became Gold Direct, my husband spread the Direct Distrributor manual and all the brochures out on the dining room floor trying to pick it too pieces for any flaws so I wouldn’t fall into a pit and get hurt. Well even that cynical naysayer became enthusiastic about the plan.

    The Amway marketing plan is so solid, that it has been copied over and over creating many multilevel marketing plans, yet, it has never been duplicated. Something is always left out so they are not as solid.

    To this day, I don’t remember what kind of educations Rich and Jay have, but are two sharp cookies that truly know the value in, “You can have anything you want, if you help enough other people get what they want.

    Some of you might be smart enough to say, “Well what happens if there’s no fuel for the planes.” Don’t be silly. Amway is far a head of McDonnel Air Craft, (my husband worked there on a space program back in the fifties after college,) Amway thinks ahead and has a fuel shortage covered.

    So Carlos, I hope you do great with Ebay markting. I may do a little myself, selling a large collection of simi-rare to rare gold, silver, and platinum coins, and some antiques. I belong to several different clubs and realize some people have made money on Ebay, some of those same people and others have really been taken for a ride where pay-pal or nothing protected them. Maybe sometime you can tell me some safety nets for clients bad or canceled checks, or when pay-pal doesn’t come through.

    I went to that link someone above had where people were complaining about Amway back in 1999. They have a right to complain about the Dexter Yager and Brit groups. They have been a thorn and disciplined by Amway many times.

    First, Rich an Jay have deep faiths differant from my Irish Catholic background, but they sparingly use their faith only to believe as you so desire and God comes before Amway, but Quote, “Do not use the podium as a puplpet. This is a business, keep it to the Amway marketing plan.

    I don’t judge a person by their faith, but by their actions, however as much as I love Amway, I would never, ever, get into the Yager, Brit groups, because I know how the marketing plan is supposed to be worked, and know how to check to see who is upline right to those next to Rich and Jay, such as the Bernice Hanson group who was also an original Nutrilite distributor. Rich and Jay were smart enough to improve the Nutrilite plan so if you were angry with your upline you can’t quit and take distributors into another multi-level group, and make your sponsor lose what they worked for.But they made it available to keep going upline to get the help you need, even if it’s directly from the company.

    NOw back to Dexter, and Britt groups. I have heard all the rumors about selling tapes and books. Rich and Jay definately frown on their methods. Most grou0ps I know anything personally about don’t flood people with books or tapes of their own, or one penny above their cost. No one makes percentages from books and tapes. So tell it, right, absolutely no one, not evern Dextar or Britts make wholesale, direct, ruby, pearl, emerald, or diamond bonuses or profit sharing on books and tapes.

    However, books and tapes are essential for people to gain extra knowlege. My three favorites are: How to Win Friends and Influence People. If you go to a book store, you won’t have to order and wait for it, or it be out of print like so many books that have come out in the last few years. It will be on the shelf, and has been ever it was published it 1936. Now that’s a record to remember.

    My sencond favorite: See You at The Top. First I like that positive title of wanting to see others do good. But every page has something to boost the spirits. My middle daughter and I were down in the dumps about some of the fowel stuff the world dumps on us, so each morning we flipped open SEE YOU AT THE TOP to any page and read it.That’s the way we kept ourselves up through some difficult times.
    See it doesn’t really matter when bad things happen, what matters is how well you deal with it and the best ways to over come it.

    My third favorite is probably off the wall to you’re thinking: It’s Between Parent and Child. Yep, a book on raising kids without insulting or making them difiant. The reason I love that book, is: at heart, we all are kids. o matter how old we become.

  72. Joecool18

    Jane,

    If you achieved some kind of profit sharing, that’s great for you. How many IBOs have come and gone from that business all losing money on the teaching syetem in order for you to collect that money?

    Nobody is saying that noone can make money in quixtar. The point is that for every “success”, there will be multitudes of IBOs taking losses in order for that to happen. In almost any group, if you do the math, the group collectively will lose money. Quixtar is simply not an efficient way of making money.

    Add in the cost of the “system” and you will end up with broken families, bankruptcy, heavy debt. It’s inevitable.

  73. Jane Noblett

    Joecool,

    You’re funny. Think about what you’re saying. Any grocery store, Walmart, J. C. Penney’s, Norstroms, GMC, ford, the gas station, even your barber has more turnover than Amway.

    The U S surgeon general, mechanical, electrical, and civil engineers, actors, doctors, nurses, accountants, bankers, and professors aren’t in it because they are going broke, they understand business. So you might want to question if you’d want some these people from above post even doing janitorial work in your business.

    If you don’t understand something, just say so and you’ll appear much brighter than bad mouthing something you don’t have a grasp of what it’s all about.

    Every person in the business is paid according to the volume they do. Don’t you wish paychecks were that way instead of the more you earn, the more Uncle Sam takes from you.

    If you earn more than my kids or I do, I don’t think you should be penalized and pay a higher tax than we do.

    Ask yourself this question, The guys at the top and giving motivational speeches had to start at the very bottom, They worked to get there, so, what’s going on with these negative minded people that never read the do’s and don’ts in the literature kit. Jeeesh.

    Broken families is even a bigger laugh. You have the liberty to work your own schedlue. No one tells you what to do any more than someone insists you guzzle beer and do the drugs that cause you to loose your mind during a football game.
    Like I said before, I became real selective on who I invited in. I knew much about the person before they ever knew I had a business.

    Jane

  74. Joecool

    Jane: You’re funny. Think about what you’re saying. Any grocery store, Walmart, J. C. Penney’s, Norstroms, GMC, ford, the gas station, even your barber has more turnover than Amway.

    Joecool” Credible link to prove your statement?

    Jane: If you don’t understand something, just say so and you’ll appear much brighter than bad mouthing something you don’t have a grasp of what it’s all about.

    Joecool: Well Jane, then admit you don’t know about business if you think quixtar is a good opportunity. It isn’t. Who is bad mouthing anything? what I said is the truth adn reality about the business.

    Jane: Every person in the business is paid according to the volume they do. Don’t you wish paychecks were that way instead of the more you earn, the more Uncle Sam takes from you.

    Joecool: Not really. You do 100 PV, you get 3% and your upline direct gets 22%. How is that fair?

  75. Joe

    hey man i just searched on google today about this group because like you someone invited me to this meeting with false hope i could have a legit. job. I was all excited yestorday before going ot this and like you i was told to have an open mind, b4 going i thought to my self ill give it a shot and maybe i make an impression on these people (because i was told it was kind of a job interview where i met other people & it was described as working with the internet) as i got the the place i thought shit this is prob a scheem or something but let me still give it a chance. as it went on i got more and more skeptical about it and felt realy pressured to join by my “sponser” but i still resisted, after the 2 hr seminar i felt disgusting and dirty, i felt taken for a ride and missled…so for anone out there reading this

  76. Ruth

    [quote comment="3102"]
    That said – about this Quixtar and Amway – Quixtar sounds like the Amway for people who are too young or naive to have been taken by Amway in the 80s and 90s. Their practices are nearly identical. Mention this “wonderful business opportunity” to your friends and family and see how fast they run.
    [/quote]

    Amway and Quixtar are the same or virtually. My husband and I used to be in Amway and we were there when they introduced Quixtar (i.e. the internet) as the new way of doing business. We left the business for various reasons and recently some of our friends tried to recruit us. This was really funny because they claimed that it had nothing to do with Amway. Well – they were talking to the wrong people.

    What I liked about Amway/Quixtar were some of the products and some of the speakers and motivational principles. We sure know how to network now. LOL! However, we made no money and are now investing our energies in our own small business – much more profitable.

    Personally I was disappointed with the pretense that anybody can make it, which is not realistic – only a few make as someone mentioned above. Secondly, my specific distributor group mixed religious/ethical principles into their motivational speaking – not in itself necessarily bad. However, the “good Christian=good IBO” allusions seemed very Calvinistic and – to me – blasphemous. Thirdly, the money spent on tapes, or now CDs etc. is truely amazing. I suggest investing in some public speaking/motivational courses etc. on your own, joining a relevant group and making your own dream come true, instead of someone else’s.

    BTW, the group/team you are dealing with may or may not be a pyramid. There are many different groups/networks that act as distributors for the production companies and they are all slightly different. Some are pyramids, some are just multi-levels. There are websites that help you identify pyramids, for example: ttp://www.mlmlegal.com/schemes.html.

    Good luck to all!

  77. Carlos

    Quixstar, AMWAY, etc., are nothing but too much hard work, too much money spent and few people making it rich.

    Nothing beats direct mail marketing or selling stuff on EBAY for some drop/ship outfit. Quick return on my investment would make my ears perk like an EF Hutton commercial.

    Selling a PLAN is hard to do.
    Selling a commodity, be it a new /virgin product or a known product will get you quick attention…ie sell Palm PDAs in ebay, etc.

    You know what I mean.

  78. blue bery

    [quote comment="2969"][quote comment="2960"]
    any ways to the main point of the discussion. the people are brain washed not to pay any attention to the negative minded people. these are the people who ask questions about how and why this works. you can observe this in the pattern they answer. or the way they try to explain the plan. [/quote]

    Yes indeed my friend. Well said….[/quote]
    I just attended the first meeting yesterday, I am still evaluating the business, and I noticed there were a lot of my neighbours (indian people).

  79. Joecool

    If you analyze the business and take off the rose colored glasses, you will see that most people make nothing or lose money in quixtar. Yes, it is possible to succeed, but your “possibility” of success is much greater doing almost anything else.

    The opportunity is promoted as a shortcut to retirement and vast wealth. That is not the reality. It’s why a major quixtar convention may have thousands and thousands in attendance and a handful on stage. That will never change.

  80. Jessica

    I had never even heard about Quixstar until about a couple months ago, but from the moment that it was first described to me I was very skeptical. It just seemed way to good to be true. Someone very close to me joined and even though I had my doubts I was supportive in his decision. I went to a meeting about a month after he joined as his guest. And the environment was happy…too happy. Right away I knew this was a shady business, there had to be something they weren’t telling people. All these people brought their dreams the table, sharing with everyone at the meeting what they would do with all the money they would supposedly make from “owning their own business”. I thought ok cool you’ve got dreams…but do you seriously have to talk about them twice a week at a meeting for them to come true? I think not…I am a strong believer that this is a waste of peoples time…GET A REAL JOB! You don’t need to buy their tapes, books, movies, ect. to become successful. In fact that’s the reason they are successful, because they’re smart enough to manipulate desperate people to buy all that shit~! That’s were they make all of their money! I watched the Dateline special on this “company” and it made me sick to my stomach. I couldn’t believe what I was watching, and I couldn’t believe that I knew someone being scammed. I don’t care what anyone says this cult. If you’re someone who is deciding whether or not to join Quixstar, THINK, and do your research before they sucker you into committing anything. They might claim that joining this business will bring you more time with family and the ones you love but I know for a fact that’s a lie. When you first start you will still be working a day job, because you won’t be making ANYTHING when you first start. So if your working everyday 9-5 and you go to meetings at night twice a week, and on occasion you’ll go hear one of the big guys speak, so don’t think for a second that it will free up your schedule. Now I could go on forever about this I’ll end here before I throw up. In closing this is a sick dirty scam that should be shut down.

  81. Andrea

    I was in Quixstar for about six months. It took a lot of persuasion because I knew in my gut it was personally not a great way to make extra money. During my time in the “business,” my upline, who was also my neighbor, was about to be evicted for not paying rent. (First red flag…)I loaned him money for rent. He’s a “businessowner,” says how ethical he is, blah, blah blah. So I wasn’t worried about getting my money back. Let’s just say that after I wasn’t doing anything for him fiancially in the “business,” he hit the road, moved, and won’t return my emails about the money he owes me. I’m alot smarter and about $500 poorer, but those people who claim to be so Christian, and ethical in the businessworld will get theirs. I’m a Christian. You can’t pull one over on God, even those slickies in Quixstar.

    My advice is run as far away as you can from these people! I’m not some dumbass, narrow-minded person, either. I am a young woman with a college degree, and was just wanting to make extra money, not lose a friend, my free time time and a ton of money.

    My mom always told me to stay away from people that lurk around Wal-Mart after 8 p.m., and she was right! Don’t become one! If you see these people, say you are not interested and walk away! If they persist, tell them to get a real job, a 401K, insurance and work the 9-5. it’s not that bad–my grandparents did it. So can the rest of us!

  82. Jim

    I was in Quixtar for only a couple of months but after reading “Masters of Deception,” I had all the proof that I needed to allow myself to quit the Business. One can easily realize that everything that someone in Quixtar (myself as well when I was a member) repeats back what they are told from their uplines.

    My upline used to call me at least 5 times a day, so long as I was in the Business. As soon as I told him that I was through with the Business and about everything that I had learned from my research (a little too late) he never called me again. He was a Senior in college as an Engineer, ended up dropping out of school, moving half way across the country to California to be closer to His upline, and has since never been heard from again.

    I only have one question to ask anyone regarding Quixtar and not at all trying to sound racist. Why are there so many foreigners involved with Quixtar? Proportionally, their seemed to be a lot of people from India, for instance, involved in the Business; why is that?

  83. Carlos

    Jim, these poor innocent people seemed to have fallen pray to the notion of the “American Dream” spouted by the charlatans. They are mostly professionals, students and even business people who are looking for a means to “make good”. Little do they know, to quote Malcolm X, they are being hoodwinked and bamboozled. The upline hucksters sell CD, books and tickets, where the REAL income is made, and have the “innocents of God” attend the large gatherings. Everything is so craftily marketed. The books even brag they use Walmart’s techniques. The wives ofthe upline act like Stepford Wives, or in some cases the men as Stepford Husbands. I atteded the few “seminars”, they look like religious cult gatherings. The announcer acts along like a Master of Ceremonies.

    Before any of you get in, please read uo like Jim did, Masters of Deception.

    Now unless some of you are intent on being deceptors, well…

    I myself believe in selling products, be it through Ebay, or through and outfit like Specialty Merchandise Corp. At least you are advised how to mark up the products tomake a profit. Even sell the product before you even buy.

    For some reason,Multi-level Marketing seems like too much work for too little reward.

  84. Fernando

    In Mexico, my country, a second workd country this scam has been creating havoc since the 80′s. No other company in history in Mexico has received so many claims of fraud at the the “Procuradoria General del Consumidor” which is a government’s branch to control businesses and their acts towards the Mexican people. Hey, in Mexico a $150.00 dollars is a LOT OF MONEY!!!

    MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. IT IS A DANGEROUS THING TO GET IN. YOU DON’T NEED TO READ NO BOOK. Just do a serious research, including a light research in previous members of amway and the customer satisfaction index on the company members.

  85. Carlito

    Quixtar is a really good company. The LOA, Line of Association (ie BWW,WWDB,LTD,etc), are unfortunately dragging the company down. Quixtar has high quality products with extensive research into their products. For example, the history of Nutrilite and how the vitamins are developed are amazing; their vitamins come from organic plants even before the word organic was used. They spend billions of dollars on quality control and research. They hire hundreds of research scientists and have the excellent customer service. The LOA uses Quixtar to move products and thus makes the LOA business legal. It is a shame that Quixtar is becoming synonymous with the LOA SYSTEMS and is being dragged through the mud. Please research properly and differentiate between Quixtar and LOA.

  86. tommas falk

    hey guys.
    you really fascinate me, after i have checked out all of the facts and figures of the bww/amway/ quixtar buisness what i discovered was : started 1959, last year 6,4BILIION soon in 90 different countries.. hello message!!! you seem too me like bitter and unhappy people who got ripped of!

    if this was such a bad deal it couldnt have survived for that long. its something called, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool all th people all the time.

    well.. buhu you know this is not made in heaven okey, relax its true it doesnt work for you guys.. though, you know what grow up! move on, you tried something which didnt work for you. thats okay but please do us all a favor keep the whining to yourselves.theres aløready enough negative in this world , lets find something positive to do with our life instead..

    regards Thomas-.

  87. Joecool

    Thomas,

    Amway started in 1959. Quixtar started in 1999.

    Guess what? Marijuana is illegal, but if it’s so bad, why is it still being sold on our streets?

    Do you know how many millions of IBOs have come and gone thru amway/quixtar? All they do is change their pitch and keep replacing the folks who quit. The folks who quit realize the business does not work, especially if you are participating in the teaching system.

  88. Jim

    I had a guy come up to me today at the supermarket, he pretended to be interested in something on the shelf to start up a conversation. Later he very directly asked me what I did for a living. After I told him what I did, he asked me out-right if I was interested in joining a business that was expanding in the area and was looking for “Sharp People” to join. Immediately I knew what “Great” business that he was talking about and told him “No Thanks, I’ve had enough of that kind of Great Business.” All of a sudden he was not interested in the item on the shelf nor me for that matter and left to approach the next victim.

    These people really don’t see other people as people. All they see is $$$$$ and how much that they can get out of each and every one of them.

  89. Jane Noblett

    Jim,

    Huray, Hot damn, that guy was both smart and selective enough to not to waist time inviting a looser to see a marketing plan affording the average person a wonderful oppotunity. It just isn’t smart to act arrogant condemming something you have no understanding of.

    Joecool, go back and look at your post saying it’s unfair for a person to make 3% for having 100 points and his direct is making 22%.
    The Dirct is doing the work and helping the newbe at 100 points to build his business to 7500 points so he will then earn 25% of his B V.

    That’s Business Volume. It’s a very unique aspect that is an inflation fighter. In my time, I’ve paid a dime for a loaf of bread.
    With inflation now, I pay over $3.00, but the store can’t base his profit on $3.00. He has to figure on volum of how many loafs he needs to sell to keep up with inflation, because his mortgage, car, credit cads all cost more today than fifty years ago when bread was a dime.

    What is unfair is to penalize people for doing better. In other words, when a child does something right, we praise them and give better grades or other compensation. But you JoeBlow, I mean Joecool are penelized for earning more money. The more money you make, the higher Uncle Sam taxes you.

    From the rest of your posts, I seriously doubt that you will be able to understand the above concept and what a strong business it makes Amway, Quixstar.

    Thomas wrote a positive and informative letter, saying Amway was developed in 1959 and in 90 differant countries. Instead of mullling it over or asking how many American companies that are family owned are in that many countries, or acknowledging that is an incredible American success story, you blabber worst than Rosie O’Donnel.
    Now what do I think of her, much as Donald Trumph has expressed his feelings that she is an ugly fat, pig with no brains and numerous mental problems. “She’s a looser.”

    Now, I’m going to tell you Joecool: You’re much like my grandson that argues to no end about things he has little to no knowledge about. Hell no, I wouldn’t ask that little divil get in my business. At fifteen, he thinks he’s so smart that he’s super dumb. I wouldn’t put up with his stupid questions and unreasonable argueing in a business any more than I do around the yard.

    When I have to explain to him 3 x’s how to level a stand, I get tired and tell the contractor’s kid (about four years younger) to do it. Then, in front of my grandson, I hand the kid $10 and thank him for doing a good job without wasting my time arguing.

    Quit trying to be a wisea## to the point of making a fool of yourself, and wise up so you can ask intelligent questions, or go take 101 in business.

    Fact: AMway started by Rich DEvos & Jay VanAndel in 1959.
    Is in over 90 countries.
    Does over four Billion annually.
    Family owned and not in debt= with manufacturing facilities larger than football field, several yacts all paid 1/2 upon ordering, last half of price on delivery. Same for fleet of airplanes and 18 wheelers.
    A subperb marketing plan often imitated, but never copied, leaving out parts that make it so incredible.
    Super ratings from Who’s Who, Fortune Five Hundred, American Standard, and highest rating ever given to any business by Dunn & Bradstreet.
    Lengthy praise from President Gerald Ford and President Ronald Regan.

    Amway is for intelligent or at least people with common courtisy and sense. WE can’t fire I B Os that are loosers, but we do have a motto, RIP. Yep, let all the loosers rest in peace rather that take up our time so we can spend it with positive people who have fun making money and being creative. People that don’t ask dumb questions about why some idiots buy pot.

  90. Joecool18

    Jane,

    You know Rich Devos himself doesn’t like IBOs calling people losers just because they don’t join the business.

    Also, some of you IBOs really need to learn more grammar. Learn the difference between “loser” and “looser”.

    What does upline do that he/she deserves 22% on your volume and you get 3%? They help you? Sure but if you are on tapes, attending all functions and reading books, your upline is already being paid to help you.

    Yuo say I don’t know anything? That’s a good one, I probably know the plan and the business better than you. You haven’t refuted anything I claimed with hard facts.

    FACT (from quixtar itself): Average IBO income = $115/mo

    FACT: .23 customers per IBO (1 customer for 4 IBOs)

    FACT: The vast majority of IBOs never make a penny

    FACT: Most minimum wage earners make more money than IBOs.

  91. Joecool18

    Jane,

    You know Rich Devos himself doesn’t like IBOs calling people losers just because they don’t join the business.

    Also, some of you IBOs really need to learn more grammar. Learn the difference between “loser” and “looser”.

    What does upline do that he/she deserves 22% on your volume and you get 3%? They help you? Sure but if you are on tapes, attending all functions and reading books, your upline is already being paid to help you.

    You say I don’t know anything? That’s a good one, I probably know the plan and the business better than you. You haven’t refuted anything I claimed with hard facts.

    FACT (from quixtar itself): Average IBO income = $115/mo

    FACT: .23 customers per IBO (1 customer for 4 IBOs)

    FACT: The vast majority of IBOs never make a penny

    FACT: Most minimum wage earners make more money than IBOs.

  92. Joecool18

    Jane Noblett wrote: What is unfair is to penalize people for doing better. In other words, when a child does something right, we praise them and give better grades or other compensation. But you JoeBlow, I mean Joecool are penelized for earning more money. The more money you make, the higher Uncle Sam taxes you.

    Joecool says: When IBOs cannot defend themselves with facts, I guess their only choice is to call someone names.
    And what difference does it make if you are in a job or have a business? You make more, you pay more taxes. That’s life. I get a kick out of IBOs bragging about their big tax refunds thanks to quixtar – it tell me they lost a ton of money on tapes books and functions.

  93. Jim

    Jane,

    I see that with all of your intelligence you stoop to insulting people calling myself a “loser” and Joecool a number of other choice insults. You seem to be bent on insulting everyone in your tirade from your grandson to Rosie O’ Donnel. I have seen the plan, I have joined Quixtar, and I have seen that the average person can and will make only an average of a little over $1,000/year full time. I don’t believe that people who are involved with this business are inherently bad; just a little misguided and overly optimistic. I wasn’t intending to be arrogant, I politely told him that I wasn’t interested in that kind of business again and said “Goodbye.” I believe that arrogance would entail you belittling so many people in your previous post, saying that anyone not in the business, or wanting to be in the business are losers.

    Please save your insults and write about something which will try and prove a point, otherwise once insults are brought into a discussion that person has already lost their argument and the respect of everyone around them.

  94. BOB

    I have to tell you that bad mouthing a company, organization or anything of that sort is a great way to discourage people because people often remember negative experiences before they will speak of positive ones. I have a friend that is newly involved in the Quixtar experience and she is very excited, and I wish her the best. I recently went to a meeting and noted some hopeful things and somethings of concern. The speakers were very inspirational and motivating with a hint of guilt. I found a lot of talk and like some mentioned not much proof to substantiate all that was said. I heard all the subtle subliminal messages and even was introduced to the “BIG DOGS” maybe to impress. I saw many things that I would not speak of because it was my personal experience influenced by my own bias and fears. However one thing is clear… When you place food before people that are hungry they will eat. Though many present wore suits, it was clear to me that they were hungry. Who does not yearn for the opportunity to one day “Not have to work, or to be able to vacation for seven years.” I am not a skeptic, I’m just cautious where I spend my hard earned money. Whether it is at Best Buy or at church I have a need to know where my money is going. I prefer to spent my own money rather than have others spend it. I think Uncle Sam does a fine job of taking their share. Do I really need to have other predators in my life. I owned my own business and work very hard at earning my income and yes, if I work hard I can see a profit more so than simply working for someone else. But, it is extremely time consuming and I suspect that driving this “business” will be the same. Again, no matter what they say, YOU WILL BE WORKING FOR THEM!!! Why not simply work for yourself. Then ALL of the profit goes to you and of course uncle sam but that eliminates all the IBO’s, diamonds and rubies waiting to take their share no matter how small does it not??? Of course they encourage you!! It is call positive reinforcement!!! Every large corporations knows that they need to encourage and provide incentives if they want to increase productivity. Often in corporate America the incentives are to the big executives, but the goal is the same. This company encourages the poor person. Even if you are a doctor or a lawyer, it is the America way to live above our means. Therefore no matter how much you make it will never be enough and so the need to make more is greater. For those who do not have the desire to have is greater. I do not know what I will do about this situation. I am scheduled to have yet another meeting coming up soon. I will try to remain open, but my common sense and life experiences is on guard. Know that I will be paying close attention and will try to ask all of the recommended questions that all of you have mention Wish me luck and I wish you much success in whatever endeavors motivate you. Always remember to be kind to one another because in the overall scheme of things we are all in the same rat race, whether we have perfect grammar or not.

  95. Jane Noblett

    Jim,

    Sorry if I mistook your post. If you said you had been in and it wasn’t for you, that was entirely proper and demands respect from me and many others that I know.

    As far as insulting Rosie O’Donnel, she could care less about my opinion, but I stand behind Donald Trump, Bill O’reily, Shaun Hannity, and the rest saying her freedom of speach carries a responsibility and holding her accountable.

    As far as my grandson, I’m not insulting him, I’m darn provoked with him telling who did what in the family before he was born. This habit won’t fly in the job world, particularly if he accomplishes his dream of becoming an astronaught.

    See, just because they are my daughters, grandchildren, and great grandchildren, I don’t look at them with rose colored glasses. I love them enough to give them constructive critisism. Some listen better than others, but that is why all 16 of them don’t have body peiricing, wear funky clothes or hair styles don’t do drugs and are decent, productive, loving, and compassionate people. Although they have my moral, political, and religious values, they still aren’t perfect. We’re still working on considerate and courtious in the home even more than on the job. Family counts more than co-workers, frinds or neighbors.

    In no way am I implying those who don’t get into the busines are losers. My husband never joined me in the busines. I was married to him for 37 years, so I certainly don’t think he’s a loser. A few of the electrical engineers who worked with him at the F A A got into the busines with me, but most didn’t, but we never considered them losers. They did make excelent friends and retail clients.

    To correct you on, “the average person can and will make only an average of a little over $1,000/year full time.” I call myself average or possibly a little below average, but with 20 retail clients buying one box of vitamins @ $50 = $800, plus $100 whole- sale on personal use. That’s two days a month doing retail @ 30% profit X $900 = $270. You have a group of six distributors who buy wholesale from you to supply each of their six distributors doing $100. That’s six, plus the group leader doing $100 equals $700 times 6 giving you $4200 wholesale, plus your personal use and retail sales of $900 equals $5100, plus your 10 distributors with no group but each doing a $100 = $6200. At that point, you make 23% wholesale, which is 23% of $6200 = $1426.

    But all of that isn’t yours to keep.
    Each of the ten IBOs without groups are entitled to 3% of the wholesale, $3 X 10 = $30. You have 6 IBOs with groups doing $700
    and each entitled to 9% of $700 = $63 X 6 = $378.

    So $30 plus $378 = $408 comes out of the $1426 leaving you $1018 plus your 30% on your retail and savings on personal use. You have a total profit of $1018 wholesale plus $270 gives you $1288 for the month.

    So in one month you’ve earned more than $1000 and only have 2 days a month doing retail, one training meeting a week, and showing the plan two times a week.

    So with ten doing a hundred, six IBOs with groups doing $4200, and your personal volume, your over $6000. Just show the plan a little more to build up the IBOs with groups and your a Direct. A great many become Directs in a year. It took me over ten.

    I’m also very cautious and it took a bunch of meetings, tapes, and books to polish and educate me. As long as I was making $1000 to $1500 a month, and be home with my 2 young daughters and 3 grandkids near the same age, I had what I wanted. But my wants changed, so I decided to work the busines, went Silver Direct, within 3 months, Gold Dirct, then voting member receiving profit sharing, and by years end had doubled my business earning $6000 a month.

    I’ve had people get in the business with me, get out and someone else invite them to see the marketing plan, and it make sense, and come back and get in the business with me again.

    Here’s an area where I’ll agree with many of you. Many new distributors become super excited and try to sponsor people before they are able to answer questions with a good back ground of knowledge. This does insult some people and doesn’t give the busines the respect it deserves.

    Maybe someday you’ll want to take a second look at it. Find someone you enjoy spending time with and you’ll have so much fun building the business you won’t realize you’re working.

    As far as Joecool, I’d like to wring his antagonizing little neck.
    Because in the several post, I’ve explained how things work, but he looks for a way to bait and to argue, but the real harm is ruining a wonderful opportunity for someone who really needs a break and desrves good things. I don’t like people to hurt others just for the sport in doing it.
    Jane

  96. Jane Noblett

    Joecool;

    Going back up to you’re post asking how many quit and were broke in order for me to receive profit sharing. You can search the entire U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, and comb deep in Alaska, because that is where the bulk of my business was, but you won’t find one person who went broke while they were my busines associates.

    What you will find is many people who I put my friends, new contacts and family in their group in order to build their business.

    I explained to you before about Zig Zigler’s quote, “You can have anything you want, if you help enough others to get what they want.”

    Sure those new contacts were my time, my effort, my expertise, but instead of keeping everyone I sponsored for just my self, I’d build one group down deep to help an IBo to reach a higher level.

    If anyone reading this wants to know the advantages of doing this and how it should be done with sensetivity they can email me at jecasey@gci.net.

    Either you’re just making a sport of seeing how many Quixstar people you can tick off or you spouting off about something you don’t have the least bit of understanding about. Either way it is harming people who may realy need and deserve an opportunity.

    That’s a good reason to never have you in my or anyone elses business. It’s much easier and certainly more pleasnat to work with a loan officer from the bank who has professional skills, courtesy, and good public relation skills.

    If you were on any other message board, I’d ask that you be banned and quit being disruptive.

    Who cares how I spell loser or looser? I like Jimmy Deans thinking. He was 15 when his dad died and he quit school to go to work to take care of his mother. He used his talents, had some hit albums, a hit TV program, developed Jimmy Dean Sausage etc. Then after making his multi-millions, he decided to get his GED at age 71.
    I tell my 15 year old grandson When he’s being cool and turns into an aggrivating littlel penhead, good thing J. Dean thought of ways he could have a comfortable life instead of waisting time sitting around picking fly specks out of the pepper.

    You ask what an upline does that he should get 23% and you only get 3%. You workd harder. You have at least $6000 volume and he has a hundred volume. The upline has shown the plan to at least 40 people who joined his group. You don’t have anyone in your group. You don’t want anyone in your group. I didn’t for years.

    When you do the work to have $6000 volume, you will also receive 23% of the wholesale. In my above post I explain this in detail. The felow who said he rather have a busines that he bought is mistaken that he gets the wholesale. He buys from warehouses that sell wholesale to him. In between him and the manufactures are the wholesalers , the jobbers, the venders, the marketers taking what they have earned. In Quixstar all the middle people are cut out and the money goes straight from the manufature to the IBOs according to their volume.

    How many times do you need to be told that the uplines don’t make money from the tapes and books. They sell the tapes for what it cost to make them in volume. They pay Amazon.com, Boarders, etc. the regular cost of the books and sell them to other IBOS for the same price as a service to them.

    When you go to a Univesity, you pay whoper bucks for tuition, you buy your own books, and the University doesn’t even give you 100% money back like Quixstar does. You’re super lucky if you get a diploma. Have you ever looked at the statistics at how many drop out of college? It’s staggering. Those that don’t completely drop out go into teaching or the arts. Arts are funded by your tax dollar. And no, I do not want a socialistic country like John Edwards, Robin Hood, proposes taxing those more who are ambitious and work harder to give to those who don’t have skills and lack desire to better themselves.

    In quixstar, you have the books and tapes and can work at your own speed. You aren’t charged tuition or any kind of fee other than the cost of what books, tapes, YOU SELECT. Instead, you can earn money as you learn, and at your own speed.

    Here’s a thought for you. Middle schools have a 30% drop out rate.
    Of those that make it to high-school, there is a 32% drop out rate.
    In other words our public schools are failing.Quixstar isn’t failing.
    They have more millionaires than any other corporation.

    Joecool FACT (from quixtar itself): Average IBO income = $115/mo.
    That’s great! It shows that this is not a get rich quick scheme.
    Some IBOs don’t do anything for months at a time. And that’s fine.
    No one is forced to do anything they don’t want to do. It is designed as a part time business with an opportunity to go as high as you want.

    FACT: .23 customers per IBO (1 customer for 4 IBOs)

    FACT: The vast majority of IBOs never make a penny

    FACT: Most minimum wage earners make more money than IBOs.

    98 Joecool18
    May 29th, 2007 at 9:11 am Quote
    Jane,

    You know Rich Devos himself doesn’t like IBOs calling people losers just because they don’t join the business.

    Also, some of you IBOs really need to learn more grammar. Learn the difference between “loser” and “looser”.

    What does upline do that he/she deserves 22% on your volume and you get 3%? They help you? Sure but if you are on tapes, attending all functions and reading books, your upline is already being paid to help you.

    You say I don’t know anything? That’s a good one, I probably know the plan and the business better than you. You haven’t refuted anything I claimed with hard facts.

    FACT (from quixtar itself): Average IBO income = $115/mo

    FACT: .23 customers per IBO (1 customer for 4 IBOs)

    FACT: The vast majority of IBOs never make a penny

    FACT: Most minimum wage earners make more money than IBOs.

    99 Joecool18
    May 29th, 2007 at 11:53 am Quote
    Jane Noblett wrote: What is unfair is to penalize people for doing better. In other words, when a child does something right, we praise them and give better grades or other compensation. But you JoeBlow, I mean Joecool are penelized for earning more money. The more money you make, the higher Uncle Sam taxes you.

    Joecool says: When IBOs cannot defend themselves with facts, I guess their only choice is to call someone names. And what difference does it make if you are in a job or have a business? You make more, you pay more taxes. That’s life. I get a kick out of IBOs bragging about their big tax refunds thanks to quixtar – it tell me they lost a ton of money on tapes books and functions.

    100 Jim
    May 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm Quote
    Jane,

    I see that with all of your intelligence you stoop to insulting people calling myself a “loser” and Joecool a number of other choice insults. You seem to be bent on insulting everyone in your tirade from your grandson to Rosie O’ Donnel. I have seen the plan, I have joined Quixtar, and I have seen that the average person can and will make only an average of a little over $1,000/year full time. I don’t believe that people who are involved with this business are inherently bad; just a little misguided and overly optimistic. I wasn’t intending to be arrogant, I politely told him that I wasn’t interested in that kind of business again and said “Goodbye.” I believe that arrogance would entail you belittling so many people in your previous post, saying that anyone not in the business, or wanting to be in the business are losers.

    Please save your insults and write about something which will try and prove a point, otherwise once insults are brought into a discussion that person has already lost their argument and the respect of everyone around them.

    101 BOB
    May 30th, 2007 at 6:21 pm Quote
    I have to tell you that bad mouthing a company, organization or anything of that sort is a great way to discourage people because people often remember negative experiences before they will speak of positive ones. I have a friend that is newly involved in the Quixtar experience and she is very excited, and I wish her the best. I recently went to a meeting and noted some hopeful things and somethings of concern. The speakers were very inspirational and motivating with a hint of guilt. I found a lot of talk and like some mentioned not much proof to substantiate all that was said. I heard all the subtle subliminal messages and even was introduced to the “BIG DOGS” maybe to impress. I saw many things that I would not speak of because it was my personal experience influenced by my own bias and fears. However one thing is clear… When you place food before people that are hungry they will eat. Though many present wore suits, it was clear to me that they were hungry. Who does not yearn for the opportunity to one day “Not have to work, or to be able to vacation for seven years.” I am not a skeptic, I’m just cautious where I spend my hard earned money. Whether it is at Best Buy or at church I have a need to know where my money is going. I prefer to spent my own money rather than have others spend it. I think Uncle Sam does a fine job of taking their share. Do I really need to have other predators in my life. I owned my own business and work very hard at earning my income and yes, if I work hard I can see a profit more so than simply working for someone else. But, it is extremely time consuming and I suspect that driving this “business” will be the same. Again, no matter what they say, YOU WILL BE WORKING FOR THEM!!! Why not simply work for yourself. Then ALL of the profit goes to you and of course uncle sam but that eliminates all the IBO’s, diamonds and rubies waiting to take their share no matter how small does it not??? Of course they encourage you!! It is call positive reinforcement!!! Every large corporations knows that they need to encourage and provide incentives if they want to increase productivity. Often in corporate America the incentives are to the big executives, but the goal is the same. This company encourages the poor person. Even if you are a doctor or a lawyer, it is the America way to live above our means. Therefore no matter how much you make it will never be enough and so the need to make more is greater. For those who do not have the desire to have is greater. I do not know what I will do about this situation. I am scheduled to have yet another meeting coming up soon. I will try to remain open, but my common sense and life experiences is on guard. Know that I will be paying close attention and will try to ask all of the recommended questions that all of you have mention Wish me luck and I wish you much success in whatever endeavors motivate you. Always remember to be kind to one another because in the overall scheme of things we are all in the same rat race, whether we have perfect grammar or not.

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    Joecool;

    Going back up to you’re post asking how many quit and were broke in order for me to receive profit sharing. You can search the entire U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, and comb deep in Alaska, because that is where the bulk of my business was, but you won’t find one person who went broke while they were my busines associates.

    What you will find is many people who I put my friends, new contacts and family in their group in order to build their business.

    I explained to you before about Zig Zigler’s quote, “You can have anything you want, if you help enough others to get what they want.”

    Sure those new contacts were my time, my effort, my expertise, but instead of keeping everyone I sponsored for just my self, I’d build one group down deep to help an IBo to reach a higher level.

    If anyone reading this wants to know the advantages of doing this and how it should be done with sensetivity they can email me at jecasey@gci.net.

    Either you’re just making a sport of seeing how many Quixstar people you can tick off or you spouting off about something you don’t have the least bit of understanding about. Either way it is harming people who may realy need and deserve an opportunity.

    That’s a good reason to never have you in my or anyone elses business. It’s much easier and certainly more pleasnat to work with a loan officer from the bank who has professional skills, courtesy, and good public relation skills.

    If you were on any other message board, I’d ask that you be banned and quit being disruptive.

    Who cares how I spell loser or looser? I like Jimmy Deans thinking. He was 15 when his dad died and he quit school to go to work to take care of his mother. He used his talents, had some hit albums, a hit TV program, developed Jimmy Dean Sausage etc. Then after making his multi-millions, he decided to get his GED at age 71.
    I tell my 15 year old grandson When he’s being cool and turns into an aggrivating littlel penhead, good thing J. Dean thought of ways he could have a comfortable life instead of waisting time sitting around picking fly specks out of the pepper.

    You ask what an upline does that he should get 23% and you only get 3%. You workd harder. You have at least $6000 volume and he has a hundred volume. The upline has shown the plan to at least 40 people who joined his group. You don’t have anyone in your group. You don’t want anyone in your group. I didn’t for years.

    When you do the work to have $6000 volume, you will also receive 23% of the wholesale. In my above post I explain this in detail. The felow who said he rather have a busines that he bought is mistaken that he gets the wholesale. He buys from warehouses that sell wholesale to him. In between him and the manufactures are the wholesalers , the jobbers, the venders, the marketers taking what they have earned. In Quixstar all the middle people are cut out and the money goes straight from the manufature to the IBOs according to their volume.

    How many times do you need to be told that the uplines don’t make money from the tapes and books. They sell the tapes for what it cost to make them in volume. They pay Amazon.com, Boarders, etc. the regular cost of the books and sell them to other IBOS for the same price as a service to them.

    When you go to a Univesity, you pay whoper bucks for tuition, you buy your own books, and the University doesn’t even give you 100% money back like Quixstar does. You’re super lucky if you get a diploma. Have you ever looked at the statistics at how many drop out of college? It’s staggering. Those that don’t completely drop out go into teaching or the arts. Arts are funded by your tax dollar. And no, I do not want a socialistic country like John Edwards, Robin Hood, proposes taxing those more who are ambitious and work harder to give to those who don’t have skills and lack desire to better themselves.

    In quixstar, you have the books and tapes and can work at your own speed. You aren’t charged tuition or any kind of fee other than the cost of what books, tapes, YOU SELECT. Instead, you can earn money as you learn, and at your own speed.

    Here’s a thought for you. Middle schools have a 30% drop out rate.
    Of those that make it to high-school, there is a 32% drop out rate.
    In other words our public schools are failing.Quixstar isn’t failing.
    They have more millionaires than any other corporation.

    Joecool FACT (from quixtar itself): Average IBO income = $115/mo.
    That’s great! It shows that this is not a get rich quick scheme.
    Some IBOs don’t do anything for months at a time. And that’s fine.
    No one is forced to do anything they don’t want to do. It is designed as a part time business with an opportunity to go as high as you want.

    Joecool: FACT: The vast majority of IBOs never make a penny.
    Joe, this stupid lie realy makes your creditability stink.
    Even if they just buy for themselves they are saving money.

    JOecool: People working minimum wage make more! What’s in your bubble gum? I was making more than my husband did as a G S step 12 for the F A A. He spent big bucks to go to Electrical Engineering school at Mo. University, had to work on birthdays, and holidays. But I never put in a forty hour week either. You can tell by my spelling and grammar, I need a proof reader and an editor for everything I write. That’s fine. I paid for those on my business news letters so I could do the important things, talk to the distributors, and ride the horses up into the mountains with my kids.

    It’s common knowledge that it takes two incomes at substantial jobs to make the house and car payments.

    The Fellow who [posted Abe Lincoln’s quote: “You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time>” Is right on target. Another of Lincoln’s quoutes is fitting: No one has a good enough memory to be a succesful liar.”

    Come on Joe. When you post outright lies, condemn a company that has had phenonomal grwoth, praised in length by two presidents, is often writen about in Forbes, and Fortune Five Hundred and has the highest rating Dunn and Bradstreet has given to a Corporation, how do you expect readers to believe anything you say?

    The others posting above claiming uneasy feelings, knowing it was a scam, it’s a pyramid,the people were dishonest. I ned to stop there. I’ve left my purse multifarious times on a chair at a meeting knowing it would be there when I returned.

    Research Forbes, and Fortune 500, these are independent business people that have more than air in their heads.

    By reading their aticles, you will sound more like a business person, instead of a penhead.
    Jane

  97. KN

    Hi…like most here i have been invited to one of the meetings by some friends who are with Quixtar… and so i decided to do my own little research. I was advised against it for obvious reasons but decided if i am being told to listen to motivational tapes to applaud a success story then i should be allowed to see the other side as well. After reading all your comments here are the things i’d like to point out:

    1. The ethical Question: To be a part of quixtar should not be an ethical question at all. Any business, any job falls short of ethics at some point and at some degree. No matter what job your doing at the end of the day u are selling some thing regardless of the want or need for it and hoping to get something out of that sale. Just because in a traditional job or business you are selling something to somebody who you’ve never met or do not have social associations with someone who is not your friend or relative does not make u more “ethical”. And for the Quixtarians – your not doing a social service of some sort just because u are introducing a friend to a “possible” better life.

    2. The business Model – every business model has it’s positives and negative…one tries to capitalize on it positives and work around the negatives. So to call the whole thing a scam would be a tad unfair…and inversely to call it the best plan ever to hit the commercial world is also stretching a bit too far.

    3. The Pyramid structure – everyone here says in a pyramid or multi-layer marketing or any other fancy words used to refer to this business, only the person at the top would make more money…and for all the people in the bottom rung it would take years to reach the top. Well that hold true for any job in the world so enough with that argument already…!! and someone commented In this business only people who are motivational speakers can manage to ascend the ladder to get successful and eventually make enough money to become financially free. What’s wrong with that? Only true leaders can motivate and mentor people and leaders generally work well with climbing the ladder to achieve success, fame and money regardless of what they are into…!!

    About my decision to join the business…well i have decided not to…why? because i dont think i have it in me to constantly look for people to join my team by making all my social meetings about this… It is not because i’m skeptical about the structure of the business or that i think of it as a shady corporate cult or wonder about whether the returns will do justice to my investments…it’s because of the same reason why a given person would rather be a doctor than an engineer or an environmental journalist than a political journalist. It’s about who you are and what you want and eventually what works for you.

  98. dumb 23 yr old kid.

    One day a man went to a meeting that he was invited to. He felt uncomfortable with the material discussed and decided to post his opinion in a blog so that other people can use his first person account to make a decision for themselves. He never claimed to be successful at what he currently does, nor does he personally speak ill of anyone who chooses to start their own business through Quickstar, he simply stated his opinion. Now people who don’t agree with this man have turned his very simple blog into an infuriating debate… and because we hide behind electronic facades, it’s okay to disrespect each other’s beliefs because no one will ever know who you are.

    My new roommates are into the Quickstar business and they both enjoy it immensely. I love that there are people who like being a part of Quickstar and feel like they can be profitable through this company. They can spend hours and hours a week in meetings and at seminars, as long as they’re comfortable with that. My problem with Quickstar lies in their advertising methods.

    IBO’s are supposed to be the advertising for Quickstar. Basically what this means is that every person that they get close to, should be introduced to the concept of Quickstar. As the website says “it’s simple to be successful: you find three people who find three people and your company builds itself…” and the other quote I love “advertise your company to anyone who comes within a three foot radius of you. Friends and family are a good place to start.” It’s true, because they’ll love you despite the fact that you’ve turned into a person obsessed with Quickstar and becoming a diamond IBO. Sure your business MAY or MAY NOT be successful, but no one will really be your friend anymore. They’ll either be irritated with your efforts of persuasion or become a co-worker of sorts but kiss that friendship goodbye when all you talk about is how much money you’ll make with your new IBO.

    We all have dreams, we all have goals, but not all of us are obsessed with making money. It’s true. STOP TRYING TO SELL SHIT TO YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!!! The relationship between friends and family is a sacred one where we are here to help and support each other… not sell each other stuff. We hang up on telephone soliciting for a reason! When we leave this world, we only leave with what we came in with. You can make as much money as you want and drive the car you want and if that makes you happy, I can respect that, but if having stuff isn’t what makes me happy, I’d like that to be respected. If I tell you that your company is not for me, don’t spend the next three weeks trying to re-word what you do so that it can sound more appealing to me!

    The clothes don’t make the man. That is a load of crap. What you put ON your body will never ever be more important than what you put into your soul. Don’t ever believe other wise. Just because you put on a suit, it doesn’t mean you’re a decent human being. Hitler wore a tie while conducting business but I wouldn’t call the man who started his own genocide a decent human being. (That’s a dramatic example, but it’s the principle.)

    Here’s a thought (for everyone!): rather than taking every opportunity to make a buck, try using that time to give back to your community (more than financially) because time is money and is actually worth more than money when your volunteer. Spend one night a month at a soup kitchen dishing out food, or volunteering with kids or a local or national non-profit organization like The American Red Cross or your city’s local food bank. Stop thinking about making more money and think about making more connections to people in life. I’ve been an avid volunteer since the age of 11, I’m 23 now and I can tell you that three hours a week, despite age or ability, at a local non-profit organization can make a world of difference to your community. Watch Frank Capra’s “Meet John Doe” which is a film made in the 1930s, and it’ll help you understand that you don’t use your neighbors, friends, and family to build your Quickstar business, those are the people that build your community!

    For the record: no one likes the guy that’s always trying to sell a slick line (and maybe that’s something Quickstar IBOs should think about the next time you want someone to buy your Quickstar laundry detergent for $0.20/load when the stuff you can buy at your local grocery store is about $0.08/load. Yeah you’re making money, but you’re ripping off the person you’re selling to. Good luck with the Karma you get back by doing stuff like that.)

  99. Joecool

    According to Amway/Alitcor officials, the quixtar name will be changed back to Amway within the next 18 to 24 months.

    They will also be looking at the abuse of IBOs my the groups selling tools.

    Looks like some positive change is happening at Amway.

  100. DEVIN

    QuickStar…its a BRILLIANT scam or so it seems. they have amazing tactics when it comes to suckering people. Im sorry quickstar but im not interesting in paying extra high prices for your “quality” Goods, which by the way are to good to sell to the general public. To all you quickstar people instead of wasting your time at meeting and spending the extra money on “high quality” money you could have invested it and made much much more. People say its their own business i say its a cheap/bootleg way to call it your business. a business requires skill and effort put into it, quickstar requires minimal effort and extremely little skill. Quickstar used to be called Amaway and amaway was shut down and charged by the goverment for fraud… what makes you think it’ll work this time. Good luck QuickStar business owners…you’ll need it

  101. mimi

    Hello, So my fiance is somehow brainwashed by this quickstar stuff… I was once a independent marketing assistant with “Melaleuca” which was sort of the same way. It went on for 7 generations. He made me cancel it b/c we were obligated to spend up to 35 points a month which was about 70-200 dollars depending on the product. We just recently moved into a new home and i dont think its quite smart to go ahead and spend 200 dollars a month. I am still being open minded about this as he is a very good speaker and seller. He works in the Sales dept at his job and is top seller everymonth, which brings in a good 2000 extra dollars a month. I would really like some quixtar people to give me feedback. PEOPLE WHO ARE OR HAVE BEEN INVOLVED! not Amway though i see its the same thing. i need CURRENT feedback. have you received a check for the time and effort and is it worth it and am i obligated to spend 200 a month and if i dont what happens?

  102. Devin

    You dont want a Quixtar’s persons feedback their filled with lies. instead of spending that $200 a month take it to an investor and invest it…you can gain ATLEAST 10% interest and make SSOOOO much more money than joining quixtar. its a scam dont let them suck you in.

  103. KP

    I have been approached by these people, rather, “salesman”. They offer the product of riches and fortunes beyond compare, thier dialog is highly scripted and constructed. ALL THESE PPL ARE INDIAN (just FYI, those that I have run into)…All their talk is just garbage. I have attended one of their meetings, which I was picked on over and over to answer some rather rethorical questions (this was probably due to the fact that the speaker could not pronounce anyone else’s name). Regardless, the idea is to cash in on someone’s else’s desparation and misfortune. The highly dubious success stories are actually not what makes the most money. The payday comes when your so-called “Buisness Partners” need a little inspiration, pep-talk, or “marketing strategy”. Thier presentations all use worthless marketing precepts about “Franchising” and “Networking” , which fall on deaf ears for anyone they call “intelligent” (one of their favorite words). I, for one, could not and cannot live with myself knowing that I must pray upon people’s hopes and misery. If you really want to make alot of money with someone else’s money, go sell securities (and you can watch real money flow). As far as I am concerned: it is a pyramid. I would be very interested to see evidence that someone is making alot of money through volume of sales. I am positive all their money comes from sales to their own “partners”.

  104. sarai

    hi, my name is sarai i just started working for this company two weeks ago my upline didnt really explain to me exactly how things work in my case what should i do that i really want to do this but there are so many people unsatisfy?

  105. jon

    ok good job on copying another website looks like you cut and past the whole thing the first two entries are word for word at least do spell check why don’t you stop bicthing so much is that all your website is about

  106. joe the guy

    Thirty years ago a high school classmate of mine contacted me 5 years after graduating. He wanted to meet to tell me of a business opportunity. Although I had never heard of Amway I declined his offer after hearing the presentation. Since that time I have known been approached 6 times by friends and aquaintences to join Amway.
    None of those people stuck with it. I wonder why? Recently a family member came to me very excited about his new internet business.
    He exlained the business and called it Quixtar. I told him it sounded like a MLM like Amway. He of course began with his programed responses. I wished him luck after being what he called being “negative”. He will fail as most do and I hope he does not spend much money doing it.
    Apparently flyers (illegally)were circulated at his college. He went to a meeting and was hooked.
    As it turns out his upline are all Indian and Asians. Nothing wrong with that but the cultural aspects of this are interesting.
    Most are known to be hard working and family oriented. They are generally outside the mainstream and are therfore easy targets for others from their countries to sell to and recruit. They have a built in advantage over someone like my nephew. The success he sees in them, will in all liklihood escape him.
    His recuiters are smart, they targeted a college campus, targeted the unsuspecting young and are pushing the energy drink from Quixtar which is drank by the young.
    Did I mention my nephew is only 17 yrs. and is supposed to be spending his time on studies. He has already alienated friends and is working on the family.
    How can we get through to him, short of seeing him fail?

  107. Joecool18

    Joe, unfortunately, your nephew must see for himself that it doesn’t work. Arguing with him will only invoke what he is being taught. That those not in the business want him to fail and he should only listen to upline.

    You can be supportive and ask questions about perhaps profit/loss.

    Hopefully upline won’t advise your nephew to skip college to build quixtar, it’s bad advice.

    By the way, for info – Quixtar is changing their name back to Amway.

  108. Doeboy

    I just joined Quixtar. “Oh My God!!! Gasp, gasp”, many of you might say. So why did I join? Well after finishing college with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, I found myself in a deadend engineering job, where after a couple of years of “That a boys” and “Good Job Man”, I still could not get promoted. So I got a job offer somewhere else. Nice place, friendly atmosphere, but I get paid much less then a starting engineer. So 5 years now out of school and married, I find myself as an engineer with a working wife and a kid living from paycheck to paycheck. Is that really what I went to school for? Do you really blame that on bad luck? Am I doing something wrong? Recently I had to start selling stuff to pay bills, and then that when it happened. I met a guy that USED to be a coworker. Chatted a little, and then he gave me his phone number. Since that day I have not been pushed nor tricked into anything fishy. No fish-oil sellsmen routine.

    Is Quixtar for everyone? NO. If it was who would flip burgers, and pickup trash. Is it easy money? No, because then everyone would want in. Quixtar is for those of us that believe that the status quo of 9 to 5 til 67 years is BS. And espacially now knowing that those of us 40 and younger will probably never see a Social Security Check what other choice do you have. So if 1,2,3,4 or 5% are the only one successful as an IBO. Then I guess I’ll have to strive to be in that %. Does it take work, no more then what I have already put in dead beat ENGINEERING JOBS.

    Also, to those saying I can believe that you want to make a living off of other people (your friends and family). If you are an employee, your job does it to you 8 to 10 hours a day 40 to 45 hours a week. Be for real. Do you honestly believe because they let you off for a few holidays and give you a christmas party that care about you? Don’t answer that, don’t even try. To me it about freedom. Even the hope of freedom, and making a few extra bucks a month is worth it.

    To wrap this up, should people quit the jobs? No, because this is not a get rich quick scheme and more people will tell you no then yes. Should you drop out of school? No because there are engineers, doctors, accountants, lawyers, etc. in this business and in teams. What you bring to your team through education is important. But this is just my opinion as is everyones in the blog. But as an engineer I’ll tell you this. Someone wrote in a book about days when you could send messages over the air to people, about ships that traveled under water, and people said he was crazy. If you are thinking about getting into this business, RESEARCH it for sure but don’t be swayed by the negative comments.

  109. Anna

    MLM’s have been around for years, and if they are legit they certainly don’t cause such a rucas as Quixtar has. Case in point…Mary Kay. The problem with Quixtar is that it was founded by crooks, run by crooks and therefor crooks join in. I have an unfortunate experience with Quixtar that I thought was unique but have come to find out that it is not.
    It turns out that the x-General Manager for a division in the US of the company I work for was a Quixtar IBO. Aside from the fact that it was completely against his contract with us, he had in the course of 3 years bought mor than $100,000.00 worth of merchandise that our company has no use with. He set up our company as an IBO, gave our company a SS#, date of birth and everything, and proceeded to make money of frivolous spending that in the end almost put the US division out of business. He also used every resource of our company for Quixtar. He used our building after hours for Quixtar meetings, our computers, our paper and copier to create tools needed for his team, he even went as far as to tell everyone he could that he owned our company. Every document we have he puts that we have no mortgage…we do in fact have a mortgage…We even supported other tools he needed for Quixtar. We paid for his Communikate 1-800 number for years, he even managed to somehow put his wife’s cell phone under our company’s account, and in turn she ran up more than $900 a month in usage. I could go on and on but I think you get the point. All this was done because simply put, Quixtar makes people to belive that in order to say you are successful, you will have no mortgage, own a luxurary car outright so on.
    To be fair, I understand that Quixtar did not nor does not promote this kind of behaivor, but I have found in talking with many other business associates that this is a common practice with IBO’s.
    I truly feel sorry for most of these people that get into Quixtar. They are people that are easily manipulated and just truly want to achieve something more in life. These people are brainwashed, it doesn’t matter what information come out on Qixtar, they are trained to not belive it. All I can say is this…look at Quixtar’s responses to the criticisims, they are vauge at best, generally this means that they have something to hide. If you want to make money in an MLM, then good luck, it takes a lot of work but success can be achieved, but be sure you look carefully into which one to go with, read the fine print and the very fine print before signing anything. The fine print in Quixtar’s agreement…”potential earnings can be up to $2000 a year, and most IBO’s average $1100 per year”. That hardly falls in line with what they claim is possible. Quixtar can not be trusted…find a MLM that is.

  110. Anna

    PS…I think anyone wanting to be a part of a MLM should take an intro business class first. Everything you need to know will be taught about MLM’s, and if you are still convinced, well then the class will just help you achieve your goals in the MLM. But I think you will find that there are much better choices. Ask yourself one last thing…why is Quixtar struggeling in cities like Chicago but thriving in rural areas??? I know why, do you??

  111. Joecool

    For people on the fence about quixtar, you need to think about not only what is possible, but what is likely to happen.

    Of course there are some people who succeed and make a living at Quixtar. I don’t think anyone denies that fact.

    But take a good look at a diamond’s business. To make a diamond, you need between 500 and 1000 IBOs in your downline.
    You also need 6 directs.

    The direct level looks glamorous, but in reality, the platinum level does the most work for a modest income and if you are hard core dedicated to the “system, the platinum levels can be run at a loss.

    The real money is at diamond, but are you that 1 person who can build a downline of 500-1000 IBOs, despite the fact that over 50% of IBOs quit each year?

    It’s “possible” but not “likely”.

  112. Anna

    Right on Joecool…The x general manager of our company left behind many Quixtar papers, one of which was a listing of his paticular “team” and that of his leader…more than half the names were crossed out with a note in the margin as to the date they quit.
    Here is something else for everyone to think about… a CEO, President of a company, General Manager ect. do not start off conversations with strangers or family and friends alike with a sales pitch. If all these IBO’s are as succesfull as they say then why must they constantly work?? I thought the whole point was to be able to have more time with your family and so on?? Why must they show up at the 4th of July town parade and begin to solicite everyone within reach? When exactly do you get this time to your family?? Sure networking is vital, but even a high-powered CEO takes time off to be with his/her family. Timing is everything. Knowledge is the key…the upper levels of Quixtar know that and go out of their way to keep it from their followers.
    Jane: To you I say, good luck, you will need it. And a word of advice…educate yourself, not just with quixtar, but in general, pick up a book (not one suggested by quixtar) you need it. Get back to me in 10 years…I am truly interested if you are a millionaire. How long do they tell you it takes?? Or don’t they.
    And to those who say that the outsiders don’t understand…well, I do. Because of this situation at work with our x-general manager, I have had to do all kinds of research…and for me that even meant contacting Quixtar. They were nice enough to take the time to explain the plan and how it works to me in depth,(its amazing how they open up when they heard that one of their IBO’s had broken their own rules of conduct and now faces criminal charges and cival lawsuits) and at the end when I asked them, so when exactly do you start making money, they literally told me “I don’t know”. When I asked according to the information we had and according to their plan, how much money this man made off of our company using quixtar and the response was…”hard to tell, most likely he just got a bigger discount level”
    Will someone who is in favor of Quixtar please explain for me once and for all how exactly you make money and when??? My guess is that no one can…

  113. Jamie

    i love this last comment. i am trying desperately to talk my brother out of this “quixtar” nightmare which some of his shady friends have lured him into. and they all say the same things. “oh takes no time at all, just buying what i need online” first of all, you KNOW its a scam, or scam-like when you have to make a downpayment on ANYTHING. i suggest watching tv around 2am sometime and seeing how many of these pyramid type companies there are that promise a fortune without ever having to leave your home!!!!!!!! wow!!! second, when you type in “quixtar” on your web browser, its interesting that more negative sites pop up than positive. third…how wonderful that they have sent the snakes out to the college campuses to feed off of college kids who are stressed out, naive, poor, do NOT have the $$ to pay for a bunch of crap every month just so they can gain these points, and have to scrounge and scrounge and scrounge JUST to get the $185 or whatever it is to join. plus, since quixtar takes NO time, it should work perfectly for college kids right? give me a break. IF you can even get people under you, you constantly have to make sure that they are keeping up with their end of the bargain or youre screwed. it pisses me off to see someone like my brother who is going to chemical engineering school, has LITERALLY no time to SLEEP(i live with him so i should know) and has enough stress as it is, to get sucked into this. i have had other family members get into that amway crap and as much as quixtar denies it, its the same s%*& different day/name/time. i think its funny that everytime i talk to the people who are in it they think its a new concept. ok, so all of the people who are going to come back and attack this….i know SEVERAL people, personally who have done this, and i have never heard a single positive thing. my cousin lived with someone who did this, lost money, his girlfriend, tons of friends….who wants to be around someone who hassles you all the time to join in on this “business venture”? listen, we’re annoyed by you, we dont want to hear about it anymore, k? oh and one more thing. i saw pictures of the national convention in nashville…please tell me..what in the world does religion have to do with this? i saw this big stage with crosses all over it and IBO posted next to it…and there was a church service. hahah give me a break. i know of people who were at these meetings and were in fact told to stay away from family and friends who dont believe in this because they are “negative”. someone else left the same comment earlier as well. listen, if its a business venture that is so great…whats with all the hype??? religion, loud pump up music, suggeseting books to read, telling you who and who not to put yourself around. i was told by my brother that i was “uninformed” and i laughed because sadly, im more informed than he is. I have the negative side of the story (which wasnt hard to find) and ive heard (from him and his friends) the positive side, as well as reading about it online. i tried to get him to read some of the negative things so HE could be better informed, but not to my surprise, he wouldnt. “its all made up” he says. OK then! all they know is what is being shoved down their throats at these pretentious meetings. so dont call ME uninformed. anyone who has been around in the past 30 years can tell you alllll about this little song and dance…so stop thinking that you have cut some amazing new deal. Like everyone else has said…”wheres they paycheck stub? i dont just wanna see your beautiful wife, talk about your flashy cars and houses and trips…lets see the proof” im not saying that 1 in 10,000 (just a guess) dont make good money on this, cuz im sure they do, but dont sit there and promise big rewards and get naive, sometimes hopeless peoples spirits up, take their money and then leave them high and dry. and oh, yeah you might get your $$ back, but what about allll the $$ you spent on the crap you probably didnt really need online that helped pay the people above you?? as about a million people have already said, overall, people spend more $ than they will make. i think and i guarantee im not alone on this, that is pretty pathetic that they have to drag college kids into this. i wonder how the people who come to college campuses sleep at night…knowing that almost all who join will fail at this, and in the meantime they are messing with their time spent studying and pursuing a degree in hopes of getting a REAL job….not a blood sucking leech of a job. sorry, but not really. i used to laugh at people who joined and failed at these things, but now that its hit home, its not so funny anymore.

  114. Wilson

    Unwise, people are looking at the glass in the dark. Allow me to shine some light. Every business meeting is different, just like every job is. I rather get paid all the advertising revenue than making commercials that a lot of people flip from anyway. Any business that is back by the Better Business Bureau, Chambers of Commerce, Federal Trade Commission, over ten Forbe’s Fourtune 500 companies, Robert Kiyosaki and a host of others cannot be wrong to investing into a business like Quixstar. Just because you didn’t “feel comfortable” or you don’t have enough belief in yourself to do the business doesn’t mean the business is wrong. Spend your time working extra hours at your job and do something else, pick up a hobby that’s beneficial to the body as well as the mind.

  115. Joecool

    Allow me to “shine some light”. The better business bureau tracks how well a complaint is handled. Quixtar is satisfactory but the BBB does not endorse any company. The Federal Trade commission has never examined quixtar and when they checked out Amway – they were found legal only because they had a rule that requires sales to customers and a refund rule. They later fined Amway for outrageous income claims. Forbes said quixtar/amway was a poor opportunity.

    There is much more information to debunk these false claims. Visit http://www.amquixinfo.com.

    Good grief, don’t IBOs ever check their sources before citing them?

  116. LyTisha W.

    It amazes me how many people call themselves “researching” companies and MLMs when in fact what they’ve done is a “search.” Before you choose to believe those who are for or against Quixtar, GO to quixtar.com or quixtarfacts.com and check it out yourself. Notice the number of various name-brands and “physical” (as opposed to internet) businesses that have partnered with Quixtar. Ask yourself, “would well-known companies such as Circuit City, Things Remembered, Barnes & Noble, Bass Pro Shops, Dick’s Sporting Goods, Ace Hardware, FranklinCovey, Office Depot, Hickory Farms, PacSun, Motherhood Maternity, and HUNDREDS of other stores (that are NOT considered an illegal pyramid)partner with a I-commerce business that would jeopardize them legally? Would the legal advisors of each company listed, and each company involved, honestly give the business they represent the ‘green light’ to partner with a pyramid scheme?” If, in fact, Quixtar is illegal, then all franchises (world wide) must be illegal as well. That means that every McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy’s, and KFC is not operating within the law. Obviously, that is untrue. Folks, if the lawyers for the businesses involved ran to the internet to find out more about Quixtar, then by all means, follow their example. But, if there are other means of finding out accurate information, do all that you can to find the facts that these notable companies found.

  117. Joecool

    Lytisha,

    Nobody said Quixtar is illegal. It’s just a poor and inefficient way to make money.

    By the way, partner stores don’t care about quixtar IBOs, all they know is quixtar IBOs
    are loyal customers and generate more volume for them. Whether IBOs profit or not is not their concern.

    Also, MCI Worldcom and Enron were also quixtar partners. Did you know that?

    Here’s a link:

    http://www.amquix.info/mickey_mouse_business.html

  118. LyTisha W.

    I hope amquix is not your only source. Here’s an additional source:

    http://www.thisbiznow.com

    This and the site mentioned in the 1st segment were designed to counteract myths surrounding Quixtar.com.
    You will see what others say about Quixtar, and whether the opportunity is “poor and inefficient.” I am aware of the former companies’ association w/ Quixtar, but I mentioned those listed above to show that Wilson’s info is indeed correct. Quixtar is legit. The BBB does back companies that meet its credentials. As for the meetings that some are opposed to, the people who invited you should tell you when you can see and/or meet the successful business owners to hear FROM THEM what type of income they earn, and more importantly, how to achieve what they’ve done. If people are not receiving accurate info from their brother or best friend, don’t blame the company–blame the person who did a poor job of representing the company. A debt-free business that has operated for almost 50 years is obviously doing something right. Go to Ada, MI and see for yourself.

  119. Jim

    LyTisha,

    Although quixtar might be a legal company, the fact remains that it is a poor overall business venture. The amount of people who fail at quixtar as opposed to those who succeed is incredible.
    Although you mentioned a valid point that the person representing quixtar should be held accountable, Quixtar itself should also have the ethics, and in my opinion the legality, to have some sort of a checks and balances on its IBO’s to verify that they are being ethical and legal.

  120. Joecool

    Lytisha,

    Amway/Quixtar is doing just fine. Problem is that vast majority of the IBOs are losing money. Quixtar’s happy of course, regardless.

    If the corporation would shut down the motivational groups, the business would be better and IBOs might actually profit.

  121. Renee Castleberry

    Thanks so much for your info. I too was invited to a meeting. I first sat down with an individual IBO and they showed the pyramid. I was dismayed. The pyramid is not what I needed to know I needed to know what the products were and how are they

  122. Atreyu

    This is so sad! I have a sister-in-law who is married w/ 3 kids and they have been in this scam (Yes…its a scam to those who look at it from ALL the angles) for many years and have not gotten any where.
    He devoted MORE time to QS than his family and day job and they constantly take trips to North Carolina, South Carolina and Kentucky to engage in these “cult” like seminars! They believe that within 2 years they will be making 800,000$!!!
    It the saddest thing to watch a family go down this road and the brain washing involved.
    I have busted my ass for over a decade, am younger then they are and DO make a STEADY paycheck and income 6 figures a year!! Her husband will not let me offer her a job (making 4 times what they make now) because they truly think that QS will solve their money woes!
    We have tried to intervene and reason with them all to no avail. They even tried to sell me and my wife the “plan” but simple logic not only defeated their scheme (anyone looked up Socalism recently and noticed that QS basically uses that as their “business model”!) but angered then that I immediately recognized their business as a sham! It is really upsetting my wife to see the toll it has taken and that after almost 10 years of straining and countless nights and weekends missed with family they have gotten no where. About 95% of America instantly sees this as a scam…why can’t they? All they see is their Sponcer raking in the dough….

  123. Joecool

    I believe most people who sign up with quixtar/amway, are generally nice people with motivation. What happens for some people, is they work the business, realize it’s not as simple and easy as advertised, the money is not there, thus they make a business decsion to move onto something else.

    But many of the upline teach their groups that quitting is a sign of weakness, or failure. This is a psychological tactic to instill a fear into IBOs about quitting. As if quitting means you cannot succeed elsewhere.

    What I have found is that there are many vehicles for achieving your dreams. And many of these vehicles are much more efficient than quixtar.

  124. Dreams

    I have a major issue that needs to be solved asap. One of my close friends had told me that he was running his own business and that he needed an assisstant. so in my perception i had thought that it was something to do with consulting since he is an engineer. Little did i know that he was talking abt Quixstart (or whatever it is called) Now him and his best friend had set up a presentation for me, and i was amazed and pleased. Little did i know that it was as i said for Quixstart. Now the problem had arised when he had taken me to this persons house in which the brain washing had started to kick in. Now im the type of person where i dont jump into things unless i get the opinions of my family, searching about it and etc. Now i was fully into it, when this guy i had met told me not to tell my parents and etc, or anyone until things are good, and that its not good to tell them!!! was there a white lie under my nose?? There is another issue, my father already owns his own products (hair) lines with his name on it, so u can say its my business too, it would be kinda mean and ungrateful of me not to help my father out, and work with this company. Now the guy was trying/rushing me to pay the 300 dolllars to get started and he had said most of successful people in this business are under 25…dont you think they take advantage of them??? given the fact that people under 25 are still fragile???? and then this guy kept on saying that i shouldnt procrastnate :S and also the advantages of me being single :S im sorry but i do have univeristy, and i do work and i dont want to hold/have another burden on my shoulders…and how after reading many many many articles and comments abt it, im having second thoughts..i dont want to be a part of it :S

  125. Joecool

    Dreams, it might be useful for you to know that registering for Quixtar/Amway costs less than $100. The people who are recruiting you are apparently sneaking in some motivational materials into your sign up kit. These materials are purely optional, and frankly, do not necessarily help teach you anything about how to build a business.

    In fact, the motivational materials are also a major source of income for certain upline. Were you informed of that?

    If you are in college/school, please don’t quit your studies to do this business. If the business is as good as they claim, you can always join up after you graduate.

    Also, despite what you have been told, it is always smart to do research and consult with people you trust before joining any business venture. To me, it’s a HUGE red flag when these folks tell you not to consult with your family and friends. What legitimate opportunity would advise you to hide what you are doing?

    Good luck in whatever you decide, but I hope I have given you food for thought.

  126. Chandra

    I have been reading about the posts here regarding the QuixStar products, IBO and their marketing strategies etc. I neither favor nor disagree with the way the quixstar group makes then known to strangers like us. I am taking a neutral disposition. One THING THAT i DO NOT LIKE is the way they push us to make instant commitments without GIVING TIME TO REFLECT ON OUR OWN GOALS! Well, they keep talking about goals through the meeting. Am not sure whether they are REALLY TRYING TO meet our goals OR THEIRS. One fundamental thing, I guess, is no good teacher will coerce her student and try to push her ideas. She will only say, “I have taught you this, but take decisions based on the circumstances”. Again I agree with one of the posts above that IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO DRESS WELL for our words to carry weight. It is by speaking the truth from the heart that one makes oneself known. So one should think WELL before taking a plunge in to QuickStar. It it makes sense that’s fine.

  127. Sonya

    Thank you for your website. I have information to make an educated decision about this “business” opportunity. It seemed shady when I was approached by an apparently successful IBO, and now I know why! As a salesperson myself, I know a sales pitch when I hear one, and this one was cleverly disguised as an opportunity for me to earn money. I was curious and met up for coffee with this IBO, and even made plans for the weekly hotel meeting. I am cancelling plans for that meeting. Thanks for saving my Wednesday evening!!!

  128. Kenny St. Mark

    Man you guys will just find anything to say would you. Trust me, my grammar is just fine. At that time however, I was a bit frustrated because of the comment the guy left and also, I always make mistakes when typing for a long period of time, MANY PEOPLE DO. What i should have done was proof-read my work, before submitting it. That was my mistake. You make some mistakes on a few words and they want to label you as a retard. *sigh* How many times we all make mistakes on words we should know how to spell. *sigh* guys come on, grow up…i think you need to rethink who needs to go back to school. *sigh* If anyone needs anymore clarification, just email me guys (KENNYSTMARK@STMARKINTL.COM) Don’t listen to these fools who have nothing better to do than spread negativity. Even if Quixtar “WAS” the worst business opportunity in the world, what does that have to deal with these guys, who wasting their time publishing this blog just to post negativity. This seriously shows you how they have nothing better to do. Trying to ‘big-up-themeselves’ by bringing others down *sigh* and yet these same persons who are here making all these comments, they will never give a damn about your success…they could be a nerd sitting in a basement writing this for all you know. *sigh* You guys make the decision….

  129. anupam

    I am glad I checked these forums. I had been warned about Amway several years ago, but since then every year some Quickstar/Amway member bumps into me and tries to do a sales pitch. I must say the people whom I’ve met are very nice and friendly. But it is a “money trap”, would they be nice if they had no money to make off me?
    So far, I have not been able to find any good thing said about Quickstar. All negative stuff. I am surprised than an organization of such ill-repute is allowed to exist and conduct business in today’s corporate world !

  130. Joecool

    Kenny St Mark,

    The big quixtar diamonds don’t care about your success either. They just want you “plugged into the system” because then you are likely moving volume plus enriching them by purchasing their tapes/cds, books and seminars.

    That’s why they tell you to “never quit” and success is righ around the corner. In any business, if you aren’t profiting, sooner or later you have to close your doors.

    Frankly, without the expense of tapes books and seminars, many more IBOs might actually profit.

  131. Venkat

    Guys,
    A simple thing to understand here is that Amway/Quixtar provides a business opportunity through direct selling. A biggest pyramid i can find anywhere is one’s own job. If people talk about number of diamonds in Amway, then the question would be – how many CEO’s are there in a big fortune 500 company? what is the ratio there? Can a person on any day start earning more than the CEO of a company. But its possible in this business. The person who sponsors u need not earn more than what u earn. The tapes, books and CD’s are just to teach people about doing the business in the right way. Not many of us are from a business background. So whats wrong in learning from a person who has already done it. In that case, a person who goes to school/college can study on his own and write his/her exams. Why pay for the books and teachers in the school? The admission fee is more than enough to come out of a school within ur lifetime – 60 years (if our goal is just to complete college/school). Treat this as a BUSINESS and not a JOB. In a job, we get salary at the start of every month. But we dont realize whats the use of that money when we cant spend time with our family members. People in this business are able to.
    I am just thinking about the attitude and mindset of people. We start thinking about how things dont work even before knowing the benefits of it. There is nothing to blame in it. That’s the way we have been brought up. These are the comments when we talk to people about business opportunities – “Don’t think too much about u. Practically speaking, U cant do this.It’s not for u, U can’t COERCE people. …..” give me a break.
    When many of us were born, there were just 2 skills that we all knew – 1) to cry 2) to pee on the floor. How did we learn to talk? how did we learn to walk? how come we learnt something called as discipline? How come we learnt to respect our parents?
    We dont learn to talk overnight when we were new-borns. Its a process and everybody in this world has done it. Thats why we are able to do it. If everybody in this world has been positive in thoughts/actions, then we wont be thinking on how things won’t work.
    Lets try to be positive in whatever we do. After saying all this, if someone is bent upon finding a grammatical or spelling error, then God Bless him.

  132. Joecool

    Venkat,

    Go ahead and call soemone’s job a pyramid. It doesn’t change the fact that quixtar is a pyramid. At least in a job, the boss and employees get paid from the profits the company makes.

    In quixtar, the guys on top make their money from the efforts and purchases of their downline.

  133. Venkat

    hey Joe,

    Thats what is our problem. We are used to the job mentality. We always think about getting some cash on 1st of every month. We eagerly wait for the last 5 days of the month to get over but we don’t show our eagerness outside. We behave as if we are having the best times of our life but the actual situation is not that. Quixtar/Amway is not a job. Its a BUSINESS. Don’t expect to get anything from it unless u go and do something outside. It is accepted that ur uplines get some incentive from the products moved by their team but we must also know one thing – if u move more products , u benefit more than ur upline. Have u seen something in Amway/Quixtar where a downline makes more business volume than his upline but his incentives are lesser than his upline. Simple man! Quixtar/Amway is a big supermarket. Imagine 2 scenarios 1) the supermarket from where u buy ur goods gives u 20 % discount on whatever u buy. The owner also says this – for every 100 bucks of whatever products u or ur friends buy from my place, u will be getting 1 $. how much of volume would u try to make? The owner also says – Joe! if u help me in finding a permanent customer, who buys products himself and through his friends for 150 bucks every month, u will get 6 bucks as royalty..what would u do? To how many people would u recommend this shop provided u find all the products in that shop to be of high quality? the owner also says this – Joe! all the offer which I told u right now would hold good for any of ur friends who comes into my supermarket..
    scenario 2: u buy whatever u r buying from the next supermarket. The next supermarket doesnt give u anything. And even if u find it good and recommend to others, it doesn’t do anything?
    Which scenario would u prefer? (Don’t worry about the numbers. that was an illustration). The worth of a pen which costs 1 dollar is still 1 dollar. Its just a product. What really matters is the person who is holding it – Abraham Lincoln or some ordinary person?
    Same thing goes in this business. Depends on the quality and attitude of the person who is doing it. If I go beg, COERCE or force a person to buy products from Quixtar supermarket,there are higher possibilities of debating more about this funny topic. If u build the business along with the teaching system in a right way, then not only u make money but u also help people to make money and gain time.

  134. Venkat

    and for heaven’s sake, if u dont find the products good in Quixtar/Amway and if u are happy with ur job, go ahead and be happy. BWW never says quit ur job or education to do this business. Going to one’s job, spending time with one’s family, buying a rolls royce or a smallest car in the world must be one’s own choice. Money or time shouldn’t be controlling us on what we should be doing? Bill gates can become the richest person but he has the choice to go by bicycle or car. It’s his wish.
    But one thing is certain, if we dont have definite goals to know why we are doing something, whatever we are doing today; then we are haeding nowhere?
    A currency note is just a paper. Unless and otherwise u exchange that paper with the things u WANT, it has no value. We go to a shop, we wish to buy something but then we see the tiny tag attached to it and then change the thing we buy whose value would fit the currency we hold in our wallet….(has happened to all of us),then it means nothing but money is controlling us.
    Amway/Quixtar is one of the best vehicles to reach ur goals/dreams. If u start doing something and u quit half way, start the next one, what will be our confidence level?
    Lets not debate things wildly. Lets think…

  135. Joecool

    Venkat,

    What exactly is a job mentality? Nearly all IBOs have jobs so they have a job mentality right? Including yourself?

    What’s wrong with a job? I have a job and I earn much more than a quixtar platinum.

    The quixtar opportunity is a poor one. Nearly all IBOs end up with less money after quixtar than before.

    The prices are too high to compete with the Walmarts and Costcos. Buy double x for $78 and get back $7 or buy Costco multi vitamins for $15. I think you are still better off buying at Costco.

    Also, IBOs who listen to cds and attend seminars really take the losses. They spend all that time and money on these non-income producing activities. The only ones getting rich are the ones selling the tapes and seminar tickets.

    What are you going to do when quixtar changes their name back to Amway? Think recruiting is hard now?

    Good luck, you’ll need it.

  136. Joecool

    Venkat,

    I have heard some BWW IBOs advising people to quit school to participate in quixtar. It’s why I post on these boards.

    Based on what do you claim that quixtar is teh best financial vehicle? Average IBO income is $115 a month and only 1 in 240
    reach direct and only 1 in 14,000 reach diamond.

    Mostly everyone would be better off with a second job. In fact doing nothing would be more lucrative for most people instead of quixtar.

  137. Venkat

    Joe,
    Job mentality is something like this – u go to office, work for 8 hours and expect ur salary at the end of the day not knowing whether the work was productive or not. A job mentality is something where a person cannot think beyond average. Sure you may earn more than a quixtar/Amway platinum right now. congrats!!But if you are going to sit at home for the next 3 months for some reason, that income may not reach you. If there is a guy who is more qualified than u (in terms of ur education or abilities) and he happens to tell ur boss that “I can do Joe’s job for a pay lesser than a quixtar platinum, then ur boss wouldnt think twice to put that fellow in your seat and thanking you for your services to the company”
    I also said “Amway is ONE of the best vehicles towards your financial insecurities.” If you have a better vehicle that could give people both time and money, I would definitely recommend people about that venture. Till such time we are all average job goers.
    Know one thing – Edison experimented for nearly 10000 times before he could make the filament glow. There would be a friend who would have sat next to Edison and told him on his 9999th experiment – “Friend! u can’t make the bulb glow”. If Edison had left experimenting at that point of time, both Edison and his friend would not be history makers. But Edison did it one more time and he will remembered till the whole mankind vanishes from earth. Unfortunately, Edison’s next door neighbour is not in history books even now. So in any case, his friend isn’t remembered but Edison IS. Thats the difference in attitude and thinking.
    There were so many positive things that was told but all that strikes again and again is an average IBO earns $115. So even though people may earn more than a quixtar platinum, their thinking and attitude is limited to an average person who just makes $115. So such an average minded person will always be an average job goer who values things based on only averages. An average job goer’s salary will be the average of 5 of his close friends. The thinking and attitude of a person doesn’t reach the level of a diamond or a direct but an average person.
    1 in 7.4 million is the president of the United States.
    1 out million people who play tennis is Roger Federar.
    1 out of 7 billion people is Mother Teresa.
    What is average probability that an average person would be a Mother Teresa, or a Bjorn Borg or an Einstein?

  138. Venkat

    And Joe,
    Of all the questions that I asked in the last 3-4 posts, its not necessary to answer me. Its for people to contemplate. If you could answer all the questions to yourself, then you are doing the right thing whatever you are doing today. Please go ahead and do it. Even if nobody else is going to remember in the world, I would remember to meet you at your hometown some day :).
    God bless you

  139. Jim

    Venkat,

    Edison didn’t invent the light bulb, it was Joseph Swan and he wasn’t Edison’s neighbor nor his friend, he was a competitor who sued Edison and won, but eventually Edison managed to buy him out of his shares as well as out of his fame.

    The point that Joecool is always pointing out very effectively is that Quixtar/Amway are an overall poor business venture that tends to feed off the young, unexperienced, and the desperate.

    Another good point that someone posted previously is that the people who are involved with Quixtar/Amway are always on the look-out for other people to recruit. And lets be honest, the recruiters are not looking to help out others with a great career opportunity as they indicate, rather it is a means to an end for them. For these recruiters to constantly bother family, friends, co-workers, and complete strangers is completely annoying.

  140. Jack B

    I hate to say this, but Quikstar/Amway is kinda like the Super Adventure Club from South park–for those of you who watch south park. You get brainwashed.

    Amyway/Quikstar may work for some, but they profit from those on the bottom who have to buy CD’s, books, attend conferences etc–all at a loss, no profit. You spend more money than you’ll make unless you make it to the top–then you’ll have to make your own CD’s and motivational tapes etc to make the big profit.

    I was once involved with Amway/Quikstar. And I’m so happy I got out. For those of you in Amway/Quikstar that have made it to the top, congradulations. Now just leave us alone! It’s so sad to see so many people at the bottom struggling for years, loosing money and not even realizing it. You loose friends and family–yes, this is what Quikstar tells you to do when your friends and family don’t want to join–they make you forget about them.

  141. Joecool

    Venkat: Two things.

    1. Quixtar is not one of the nest financial vehicles. It’s why I post here. You and some other proclaim that quixtar is the answer to people’s financial security. It is not. The vast majority of people are worse off because of their quixtar experience. If you want to give examples of a million tennis players are Roger Federer, then there are probably tens of millions who tried Amway/quixtar and there is one bill britt. Your chance of winning a lottery is better.

    2. Quixtar does not provide income after you stop unless you are one of very few tenured diamonds. Stop building the business and the IBO attrition rate will effective stop your income. Why do you think there are “former” diamonds?

  142. Venkat

    :)

    A fellow who doesn’t clear his exams in the University usually tells any of the following:
    1) the courses just test my ability to byheart stuff.
    2) Professor didn’t teach well and
    3) the university uses a pattern which is of no worth.
    Whatever we are talking is something similar to that. I still don’t understand how people lose money in this. How come people lose money on products which last for more than 6 months. One way is to stock things and which is never recommended as per the Amway business manual. I don’t think any IBO who is associated with BWW would recommend that.
    I am again saying that the attitude and thinking of a person doing the business really matters not the company or products. Anyways, Lets all do whatever we are doing today if that could keep us happy. :)
    Both of us are not going to budge. There is no point debating.

  143. Venkat

    And Jim,
    I am extremely happy that you could provide the right facts.
    If it was Joseph Swan who invented the bulb, then let him be. :). There was more importance to the moral than the name of the person there. Joseph would have had friends who may have thought that the guy has gone mad. Look out for the positive things. Leave it! This topic is not worth discussion

  144. Venkat

    Joe said: Despite these issues, about 50% of the students still manage to graduate as compared to the fraction of 1% who make any significant income from quixtar.

    Venkat says: ask whether those 50% studied their books or attended classes? Ask those people whether they wrote what was needed in the paper to pass? Ask whether those people wrote English in a French exam to pass the exam? Ask those 50% whether they WANTED to pass at all, in a right way?

    If I were given 8 hours to cut down a huge huge tree, I would spend 6 hours sharpening my axe.

    To succeed in this business, these steps are NEEDED:
    1) Need/Want to achieve significant income or time in life (ask 3 levels of why u want it)
    2) 9-5-3 BIB
    3) going Eagle
    4) Reading three books byheart (Even if someone asks an IBO the page number by quoting a para, he/she must be able to tell it)
    Names of those 3 books
    1) Launch your future by BWW
    2) Skill with people by Les Giblin
    3) How to win friends and Influence people by Dale Carnegie

    If the above-mentioned 4 things are done by an IBO , there is no way in which an IBO can’t succeed in this business. (Provided and provided he does the 4 things and reads those 3 books)
    If a guy says I am in Amway for such a long time and nothing has worked, I would ask him If he has told the business to his best friend or to all his neighbours? From the bottom of the heart if he is going to reply in negative, then its guaranteed that the guy won’t succeed in this business. Leave alone making $115 on an average.
    I want one IBO or any person on earth to tell me that the business did not work for him/her even after following the 4 things that I mentioned and after reading the books that I mentioned the way BWW asked them to do.
    Its not the quality products that is the root cause of success for some people,but its the attitude and thinking of the person that makes him/her successful. If it has worked even for 1%, know how it has worked for that 1%. Ask them what they did and if they say anything other than the 4 things, then the problem is the person who was not able to make things work out for him.
    A company gives products, gives you product training sessions to tell you about the quality of products and on how its cost effective. There is a huge system to teach how to build the business. there are books to tell you how to talk over the phone and make appointments. That’s the maximum we can expect a company or system.
    Now if a guy says that “I dont want to ask how it has worked for that 1% but all I know is that the business doesn’t work.”
    Cool, I am happy seeing such a person. Atleast I am less competitive by one person on this earth doing this business. :)

  145. Joecool18

    Vent, post the parameters for eagle. It’s not a program that produces profit, it’s a program that promotes tools and was probably invented by someone in BWW or WWDB because they aren’t producing many new emeralds or diamonds.

    Are you claiming that 99+ percent of IBOs didn’t do the work? I don’t buy that for a second. More likely the system doesn’t work
    which is why there aren’t more people succeeding. Throw in quixtar’s bad reputation and there you have it.

  146. Renee Castleberry

    you guys are cracking me up over all this. You have been going back and forth for days over this junk. Just accept that it’s a pyramid sceem that only the people at the top will make money, you being at the bottem will not, you will spend more money trying to make money. Just get a part time job delivering pizza, you will be making real money there and in the long run will come out better off than if you waisted all your time and money trying to do something that is just not going to work.

  147. Jim

    Venkat,

    As far as the Joseph Swan topic, it is very important to know the facts (the right facts). Otherwise, you are trying to use metaphors that have no bearing in your argument. If you think that facts are not important in a conversation, then maybe Amway/Quixtar needs to add it to their Eagle program.

    I would be very interested in knowing why someone who needs to be successful in Amway/Quixtar needs to do those 4 steps. It seems like a mindless way for the upline diamonds to force their tapes, books, seminars, and more importantly new recruits to keep this products flowing. But please explain to us why these 4 steps are the key to success.

  148. Venkat

    Jim,
    The answer lies in your question. To be successful in Amway/Quixtar, you need to do those 4 steps. Eagleship determines the strength of your business. If a person wants to do the business and be successful, he/she has to do those 4 steps.
    If I want to do my Master’s in some specialized course, I have to complete my schooling and Bachelor’s. Can I ask why should I do my schooling and Bachelor’s to complete my Master’s? Can’t I directly do my Master’s after Kindergarten? Yes, anybody can. But I can do better in my Master’s if I do my basics right. As simple as that.
    As simple as that. Have a nice day.

    @Renee Castleberry:
    If you feel that a guy earns better by delivering Pizzas and if you want to do it, Please go ahead and do it. This business can be done by anybody but its not for everybody. So kindly go ahead and do what you like/want to do. If you tried this business and if it didn’t work for you, then ask yourself whether you have done those 4 steps. Enjoy! have a nice day

  149. jeffrey brown

    i stepped in the door from work tonight to hear my wife talking to her best friend on the phone. of course, i tried my best to lend her “privacy”, but, the “familiar ring” of MLM “filled my ears”. “oh, really? … and, they’ve made how much? oh, my gosh, they have how many people now? oh, i’ll talk to my husband about it .. this sounds wonderful! we’ve been looking for an additional source of income.” i laughed. i knew it was a disscussion about AMWAY. oops, i mean, quickstart or quixtart … or whatever it is called now. i’m sorry, i get a sick feeling every time i hear the name AMWAY. and, maybe that’s why it has sold out or changed it’s name. it’s “PLAYED OUT” for a lack of better words. my wife speaks truth in the fact that i am searching for an additional source of income. Something that makes us money without hardly any effort. You know what i’m saying. ten or fifteen hours a week online …. generating $2,000 to $20,000 a week .. part-time. “they” say it’s possible. my wife’s friend claims that they have a friend who’s making a six figure income with quixtart .. or whatever it is. quixtart is their only source of income. they quit their previous jobs. still, i’m as skeptical as they come. i’m just not interested in, and excuse me for saying this, businesses that practice “cult-like” principles. and, what i mean by that is, in order to be successful with these companies, you must, or feel like you must use their products exclusively. being a person who shops mainly for “brand-named” products … i would find it difficult to attempt to sell something to someone that i feel is of less value than what i would normally purchase. quite honestly, i think this is one of the main reasons that people fail in this type of business. if your are truly willing to give in to “the product”, regardless of whether you believe it is of greater value … you may succeed with these types of companies. but, as we see, most fail. my “hat is off” to that 3 to 5 percent who are able to “shut themselves off from the outside world”, and make quixstart or quickstart or AMWAY their way of life. i’m sure that for that small percentage of people, there’s great rewards. i just don’t think i’m capable of, or interested in making “their way” my way of life. i hope my wife understands. and, i’ll keep searching for a more “forgiving” home based business.

  150. WELL WISHER

    WHATEVER YOU DECIDE DO IT YOURSELF. QUIXTAR FOR ME AND MY WIFE HAS BEEN AN AWESOME OPPORTUNITY. SEE THE FRUIT ON THE TREE OF THE PERSON WHOSE OPINION YOU TAKE. PEOPLE ARE SO BUSY WRITING NEGETIVE THAT THEY OFTEN DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT IN LIFE. AND MOREOVER THEY ARE MORE FOCUSED ON FIGURING OUT HOW QUIXTAR WILL NOT WORK RATHER THAN WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO BETTER THEIR OWN FAMILY. MAY BE THEY SIT AT HOME AND DO THIS AND THEIR WIVIES WORK.

  151. Venkat

    Hey Well Wisher,

    whatever u are going to post here will not get into the heads of people. So its better not to waste 20 mins here. Don’t do the mistake which i have already done. The people who are negative about the opportunity are the ones who will neither be taking the business nor the products. So its a sheer waste of time talking and posting things to them. U could go out and meet one more person, give him a product or help him do a business.
    Keep doing well.

  152. Tom

    The Team, hahahahaha. What a joke, anyone that believes in that crap is brain washed. You have to go to all there stupid meeting and pay $5 each time, and there seminars $$$$$. Brain Washed. I heard there getting sued by quixtar anyway. Over priced, same BS stories at every meeting. HELLO.

  153. crap

    if you all have guts to succed in life then build this biz. follow all the thing the people say you to do. if you dont suceed yet then come and say again to me.
    dont type any rubbish thing here like a dumpy stupid.

  154. manak

    my dear why we are listening to a failure.we have so many great leaders in amway bsns,learn from them.if u are not happy with amway ,get ur money back with n 3 months,that too in full.

  155. Joecool

    Quixtar is just a poor business opportunity, period.

    The prices are too high to be competitive so it’s hard to find customers and IBOs must spend close to $300 a month to get their 100 PV.

    The premise of quixtar is to “Buy from yourself, sell stuff to customers, share the concept in the hopes that others will join you”

    If you are on standing order and buy an extra tape/cd a week, you will have over 120 tapes/cds at the end of the year, and an endless schedule of meetings and functions.

    How much instruction do you really need to: “Buy from yourself, sell stuff to customers, share the concept in the hopes that others will join you”?

  156. harishankar trivedi

    Hello Dear Im Harishanka Trivedi

    If that is the case, the we should all dress like BILL GATES, ie. BUSINESS CASUAL, or simply casual. Now he is a BILLIONAIRE. I have met true millionaires and not the wannabees. The true millionaires do not dress flashy at all, in fact rather modest. Any one ever read THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR? Then you all get my drift.

    Anyhow, BWW,The Team etc., are all long term projects and do not expect to get rich overnight. Just tell the truth, the objective is to direct business traffic to a website for purchases so you can get a kick back. Nuff said. The more your downlines buy, the more money you make, that is what it is in a nut shell.

    If you want to make cold hard cash, fast and upfront, work with Specialty Merchandise Corp., or be an ebay merchant, or a direct mail marketer (snail mail or with an electronic store front).

    If you want to make money out of someone elses misery, buy the real estate kits that teach you to buy property very inexpensively USING OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. Imagine buying a foreclosed home and selling it. There indeed many ways to skin a cat and make mucho bucks.

    But I do agree, I find the VanAndels and DeVos people very nefarious, odious, unsavory and untrustworthy. Thank God DeVos lost the governors race. EeGads Republicans are just greedy people who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes. Creepy if you ask me.

    If I come across as an ICONOCLAST, I am, (in the mold of Dennis Miller with some healthy dose of Jay Leno for good measure).

  157. DanMichigan

    Hello,
    I have a buddy who has been in the BUSINESS for over a year now. First he called it quixtar, but now there are called “Team”. That’s because now there trying to get away from Quixtar because they are getting sued by them. Does any one know what this lawsuit is about? I asked him about it, and he told me they want to break away from Quixtar over costs dealing with the products. Also if they don’t win the lawsuit they can’t do buisness for six months. This I what he is telling me, just want to know the truth. Only because he has been bugging me about signing up. I’m not going to, just want to clear up the law suit thing. Thanks

  158. Jason Reimann

    Seeing that you can’t even spell “Quixtar” properly, it’s obvious what a bunch of wasted, low lives you critics are. Case closed.

  159. DanMichigan

    Excuse me, and thanks for the grammar lesson! I’m not being a critic. I’m just trying to find out some information about the case involving QUICKSTAR and Team. Take is easy buddy, life isn’t that bad for ya is it? Pop in one of your motivational CD’s and relax.

  160. Dhaval Bhavsar

    Whenever and where ever someone discusses shortcomings of Amway/Quixtar business model, IBOs come rushing to save their backs. The reality is, mean income of active IBO in North America is $ 1400. It does not include the expenses for tools, tours, and meetings. The successful Quixtar/Amway players are earning from their meeting subscriptions, media and tools sales. For a small, very small percentage of IBOs being profitable, this is not a great or even good business model they tout it to be. Deny it all you can, but it is a sort of pyramidal system as income and sustainability is based on new recruits. Most of the activities and energy are focused at recruiting new IBO in down line. The products are neither extra ordinary nor competitive in pricing. That is very much the reason that most/almost all of the IBOs will never try to sell you products but try to sell the plan. I know these comments are only going to encourage more IBOs to come and lament my posting but that should not stop me..

  161. Joecool

    What’s so comical is how so many IBOs are brainwashed into believing in their “system”. They fiercely defend their system and beliefes even when they are losing money month after month. When asked about success, they refer to some diamond who made $25,000 in a month.

    I don’t believe critics have ever said that nobody makes money in quixtar. Obviously theer are some individuals who make a lot of money in quixtar. The problem is that for every one successful “diamond”, there are thousands if not tens of thousands who lose money in order for that one big success.

    It would be like promoting the lottery as a financial vehicle and then when being questioned about it, we would point out a handful of lottery winners to show what is “possible”.

    IBOs are also taught that success is built on duplication/ Hello? Doing 100 PV and losing money due to tapes and seminars? You duplicate that and what happens? YOu get more and more IBOs losing money.

  162. Joecool

    Brian, my boss isn’t trying to con me into a lose money business opportunity. And FYI, I know exactly how much my boss earns.

    How much are you losing each month after subtracting business expenses for tapes and seminars?

  163. Jane Noblett

    It’s interesting how the nay sayers can’t keep their stories straight.

    The first post of Joe Cool says the promoters tell you not to discuss Amway with your family and friends.

    Now look at the post that say they won’t get in because they don’t want to constantly pester their family and friends and turn them against them.

    Joe Cool, You keep repeating to have the person showing the marketing plan to also show you his IRS tax returns to see how much he made. That’s STUPID, STUPID comment. He isn’t selling you his business.

    He’s asking you to look at a business opportunity to see if it is something you CAN DO.

    You are advising people to forget any sense of common courtesy, and to show they don’t have a lick of sense in the legalites for this type of marketing.

    It is possible to buy an Amway/Quixtar business. In that case, the buyer is an upper level distributor who has more sense than to ask to see the sellers IRS return.

    Damn tell that at a seminar and the walls may fall from the laughter.
    How much the seller paid for his lap tops, copiers, or seminars doesn’t mean didly squat to the buying distributor.
    Do some research and see what he’s interested in.

    Amway doesn’t want to intice people to fudge what can realistically be earned. Therefore, it is mandatory to give out the marketing brochure to every person you show the plan to.

    The brochure has the highest Directs, Ruby, Pearl, Emerald, Diamond, to Crown Amassoador bonus.

    Under the highest bonuses, are the average ones. These average bonuses are quite impressive. Besides printed in the brocures, these are figures for the IRS, and other government agencies access. You think the company doesn’t answer to doezens of government agencies. Do you live in a cave?

    Joe Cool, best you study the FTC rules, And know what contitutes a pyrimid. You might want to do some research to find out the mininum customers a distributor has to have to receive a bonus check.

    The products have to move to the consumer. A distributor can not stock in order to receive any of the multiple bonus checks. They have to show they move 70% of the products.

    The above info has been very public sense the mid seventies. Where have you been that you missed it?

  164. Jane Noblett

    Jessica,

    I’m sorry you were so turned off by Dateline giving a creepy presentation. It might have kept you from a fun and exciting buseness and meeting thousands of realy neat people.

    I got in as a skeptic, but the company kept proving and proving itself, so I stayed for thirty years.

    For the first few years, I did nothing but retail, mainly with the cosmetics that are in the top five with Clinique, Channel etc but much less expensieve.

    Word of mouth spread and I quickly had eighty regular customers. I could see all of them in two days a week. At an average of $40 per customer, @ 30% retail gave me $960
    in that area for the month, But then I also had commercial accounts that bougt several hundred each, so my bonus checks added up.

    I didn’t go to many meetings, because all I wanted to do was retail.

    When I did decide to build a group, I had my base of customers and many became distributors. We went to the product training meetings once a week, and once a month to a Seminar.

    Yes, it gave me much more income than a full time paralegal. And as far as time. I could afford to hire domestic help. Why not pay someone else to do the mundane things of cleaning and have time to take my family on weekend celebrations at neat Alaskan Lakes, or done in the gold mining country.

    My kids, and grandkids came to many Rallies with me. Because it was my business, and I had been taught at the first of the year, to enter in every birthday, federal holiday, anivesary on my calendar.

    For Instance, From Thanksgiving to New Years, I worked about eight days.

    Did I make money, well, I can still aford to live in my 3600 sq. ft. home, instead of downsizing because I can’t do the things I did younger.

    The key is, not to pester freinds and family.
    No one likes to be forced to do anything.
    Instead, build the business to where they come and ask you to get in.

    I’m still on good relations with what family is still alive. My brother-in-law is eighty, but he alsways sends cards and we talk on the phone.

    Did you ever ask what was in it for Dateline
    I’ll show what it is later on another post.

    As far as sponsoring in suckers, that’s dumb business. Smart business is to sponso in people who are smarter, can do more than you. This business is seldom for the struggling single parent worrying how she’s going to feed her kids. There are some of them with a determination to pull themselves up, but usually not the majority.

    The best distributors are the ones who’s lives and marriages are in tact. After you have built a lucrative business, you have time to spoon feed, others struggling to make it in life. That advice came to me from a sharp business man well respected in town.

    It’s funny, but those that have a good life, are the ones that always give to others.

  165. Jane Noblett

    Joe Cool says churches and other orginations don’t coax you in like Amway does.

    Still sipping on that cool aid huh, Joe. Didn’t you learn that Jim Jones spiked it
    What do you think that mass suicide was about?

  166. Jane Noblett

    Joe Cool,
    What world do you live in? You say even if a a regular business is a pyramid the owner to the bottom get paid.

    Sense when? Sixty years ago I didn’t get paid unless the check for the products cleared the bank. Actually it was a family business. The point is I grew up seeing the struggles in having a business.

    Sure, people in the oil business have big money. If that’s the case, why was I loaning my daughter and granddaughter money until they could cash their checks.

    How many times have people lost everything when their regular business went bankrupt or after hiesting the employees, the owner skipped Dodge?

    My, My, My, such a rosey world you live in.

  167. Jane Noblett

    Doeboy,

    Loved your post. It’s so true and you make it darn humorous. My husband said he’d probablly been better off if he’d been a truck driver instead of going to EE school.

    I think with your attitude you’ll do great.
    What part of the country do you live, and who is your cron direct?

  168. Jane Noblett

    Anna,

    Now see I’d like to do more than a lawsuit or criminal charges against the IBO’s lousey actions.

    People like him make it hard for the ones seriously building reputable businesses.

    I’m glad you realize he is only one out of many millions of IBos.

    Any time you call Amway, they are always willing to help in anyway they can.

    Had you called them earlier, when culprit was in the middle of ripping off the company, Amway would have put him in arbitration and withheld all of his bonus checks until the matter was settled. It’s quite probable, his bonus checks would go to the company for compensation.

    In my other post I’ve given a great deal of information on how I started doing retail then went into sponsoring, and reached Ruby direct.

    No one was putting you off at Amway by saying they didn’t know how long it takes to make money.

    Like myself, All I wanted to do was retail in the 60′s. In the 70′s I started sponsoring.

    I cleared more with just retail than most working a 40 hr. week.

    But what I did, is not what others might do.
    For I lined my clients up in areas where I’d have little time wasted or expense going from one to the other.

    The only income put into my business was from my profit from the 60′s until I quit actively building the business in the late 80′s and early 90′s. But I remained an in active IBO until I became seriously ill and didn’t renew about 4 or 5 years ago.

    Some people don’t manage their business that way. Some buy fancy computors, lap tops and big cars to impress.

    Like Amway answered, “He probably made the money from bonus checks.” Meaning he was buying his way up which is against the move 70% to the consumer. For that alone, he could of been in arbitration and his checks held.

    I’m sure Amway explained the first way to make money is retail, the other ways or in the bonus checks. The first bonus check is based on points that determine if you will make an added 3% or 25% of the business volume. Most of the other bonuses are annual.

    So it’s a truthful answer when they say, “I don’t know.”

    No two business people deem the same expenses necessary.

    My motivation for defending Amway, is it proved itself to me. They treated me more than fair. I miss the doing it, But order from my products from an IBO I sponsored in back in the 80′s. I think it is a tremendous business, particlarly if you only use your profit for ALL BUSINESS EXPENSES.

    That’s the way it is designed to be done.
    Rich and Jay are and have every reason to be proud of the corporation, the yacts, the eighteen wheelers, and planes completely paid for.

    They had it harder than IBOs now. They had one product and no sucess stories on tapes to guide them. Nevertheless, they took a kit and six original IBOs and built a multibillion dollare company that expanded to 90 countries.

    I hope the justice system socks it to him. I sure would like to know what happens to him.

  169. Joecool

    Jane says: The first post of Joe Cool says the promoters tell you not to discuss Amway with your family and friends.

    Joe says: That is correct. Many promoters will discourage you from talking to your family and friends because they are “negative”.

    Jane says: Now look at the post that say they won’t get in because they don’t want to constantly pester their family and friends and turn them against them.

    Joe says: Correct. Most IBOs don’t have anyone else to contact except for family and friends. After that, many IBOs resort to stalking people in malls or at a bookstore.

    Jane says: Joe Cool, You keep repeating to have the person showing the marketing plan to also show you his IRS tax returns to see how much he made. That’s STUPID, STUPID comment. He isn’t selling you his business.

    Joe says: Correct, but when he’s telling you to sign up because you can be like him and retire at the age of 30 and never work again, and buy jets and mansions, I believe you have every right to verify income claims. In fact, Amway was fined $100,000 by the FTC in the 1980′s for false income claims.

    Jane says: He’s asking you to look at a business opportunity to see if it is something you CAN DO. You are advising people to forget any sense of common courtesy, and to show they don’t have a lick of sense in the legalites for this type of marketing.

    Joe says: I’m not “advising” people to do anything. I am simply pointing out the obvious. Quixtar is a poor opportunity for most and I have numbers to prove it. What have you proven?

    Jane says: It is possible to buy an Amway/Quixtar business. In that case, the buyer is an upper level distributor who has more sense than to ask to see the sellers IRS return.

    Joe says: And how much do these IBOs get when they sell their businesses? And WHY WHY WHY would you sell the business if you can kick back and collect “residual” income? Kindly answer that question.

    Jane says: Amway doesn’t want to intice people to fudge what can realistically be earned. Therefore, it is mandatory to give out the marketing brochure to every person you show the plan to. The brochure has the highest Directs, Ruby, Pearl, Emerald, Diamond, to Crown Amassoador bonus.

    Joe says: Yes, please tell your prospects
    that the average IBO earns $115 a month. Working 10 hours a week, that will be less than $3.00 an hour, and likely wil be a net loss when you factor in the cost of tapes and seminars.

    Jane says: Joe Cool, best you study the FTC rules, And know what contitutes a pyrimid. You might want to do some research to find out the mininum customers a distributor has to have to receive a bonus check.

    Joe says: I have read the parameters of a pyramid. It’s where there is a lack of customer outside of the organization and where the people on top make most of their money from people on the bottom. IMO, quixtar meets many of those parameters.

    In any case, I have never said quixtar was illegal. I just point out that it’s a poor opportunity for almost everyone who gets involved.

    Jane says: The products have to move to the consumer. A distributor can not stock in order to receive any of the multiple bonus checks. They have to show they move 70% of the products.

    Joe says: And exactly how does quixtar monitor this? And why do many IBOs teach “buy from yourself, no need to sell”?

  170. Joecool

    Jane, you speak of pyramids. See, in a real business, workers negotiate a salary and their efforts produce a profit, the workers get paid, even the lowest man on the totem pole gets a paycheck and has money at the end of the month.

    In quixtar, you buy overprived products. Your direct gets 25% for your efforts and you get 3% out of that for your volume. Then you buy tapes and attend seminars to learn how to do that. Wow – freaking genious!

    You cannot get residual income when 50% of IBOs quit each year.

    You talk about one abusive IBO. Well, think about this. That one IBO probably attended a function with 10,000 other IBOs and there are functions going on all the time. That misinformation is more rampant than you think.

  171. Jane Noblett

    Dan Michigan,

    This is an excellent business opotunity, but it does have distributors that don’t follow the rules.

    I was an active distributor from 1963 to until in the 90′s. Then inactive for another ten or so years. And yes, I made good money and had one heck of a grand time.

    With that said, the Dexter Yeager group is a very large one that has been reprimanded by the Corparation many times.

    The Team is part of the Yeager organization. When you see negatives about Amway, Quixstar, you can better believe it’s connected to the Yeager organization.

    People in the Team bent the rules, Quixstar revoked their distributorship, they sued Amway, and then broke some court orders, and now there’s a lawsuit between the Team and Yeagers.

    You can look all of this up on the web. Type in Quixtar and search the lawsuits.
    The general idea is: The Team wants out of Yeagers group. I don’t blame them for that. I wouldn’t ever want in his organization. But they want to take their distributors with them.

    That’s against the rules, because the people above them put in work to help build their group and it will take away from the income of those who helped build the group.
    Everyone who gets in signs that they want quit and take their group with them.

    Now they can quit for six months and get in the Teams new business that is in competition.
    I don’t know what part of the country you’re in to help you better, but here are some ideas to ponder.

    In the Seatle area is a really neat Crown Direct, Dick and Dee Osinger. Dick is blind, and has a sense of humor that won’t quit. They are good people and their downlines stick with the code of ethics and rules.

    It’s a darn good business and I hate to see your friend in the Yeager group. Have him to nose around to who knows Dave and Thea Nutter in that organization. I’ve had occasion to work with them, and like them much, so all people in that organization aren’t bad. On the other hand, Nutters were in Alaska and geographical removed from the Yeager organization.
    Good luck to both you and your friend.

  172. Jane Noblett

    MOTIVATION
    What is the MOTIVATION for all the Quixstar/Amway bashing? This site belongs to Diwaker Gupta. He went to a Quixtar meeting and says “ ‘ Merchants of Deception is a must read for anyone planning on getting into Quixtar.
    Joe Cool answers about every post with a smart mouth putting Quixtar down. I’ve found two things common in all the bashing. First, with 6 to 8 million distributors, negative web pages eventually name one huge Amway/Quixtar organization, Dexter Yeager’s.
    Who is Eric Scheibler author of Merchants of Deception, and what is his bashing motivation? Scheibler is an X emerald Amway/Quixtar distributor, Meaning during his ten years in the business he built 3 groups each doing about $1500 a month that he received 3 % of plus annual bonuses amounting to 6 figures. He got his J. d. from Notre Dam law school. Instead of accepting a sale of $75,000 for the work he put in to build the Emerald distributorship, he resigned and is representing disgruntled Quixtar ibos for $550 an hour. A few million is pocket change is nice, huh?
    The second thing in common on the sites bashing Amway/Quixtar is bashing the Republican Party. My goodness, Amway gave four million during four years to the G O P. That seems like a piddly amount in comparison to what billionaire George Sorros gives to the Democrats.
    Mother Jones, radical investigative social commentary from the far left. Mara Hawse/Mother Jones labor agitator was of small grandmotherly appearance but known as the most dangerous woman in America.
    NBC Dateline takes hidden cameras into a Quixtar seminar. Hidden Cameras, now isn’t that real stand up front? I’d be willing to bet fifty other cameras were in the open. For an hour or so of reading the interview with Bill Britt, you get down to the nitty-gritty. It is a Dexter Yeager seminar, and oh my goodness. Dick Devos ran for senator in Michigan.
    I’m sure a bunch of republicans’ sides are aching from laughter. Yep NBC is frequently in the news for its left wing biases. The digging dirt on the right, true or false, sells direly needed ratings for NBC. Ratings and Republicans all in one shot!
    What is my motivation for standing up for Amway? To me, my daughters and several grandchildren, it was an exciting business where we learned a lot and had a great time. What peeves me is Schreibler, and Dateline are bashing the heart of Free Enterprise.
    Rich Devos and Jay VanAndel started with one product to market. They built the corporation from starting out like every ibo does now. The billions of dollars the corporation takes in annually is impressive, but their dream to take Free Enterprise into the whole world, and at a time when Mom and Pop stores were becoming extinct, is more than any government has done.

  173. Joecool

    Jane said: What is the MOTIVATION for all the Quixstar/Amway bashing?

    Joe says: You call it bashing, I simply see it at telling the truth. The truth doesn’t fit into your value system so you call it bashing. The FACT is that the vast majority of people who get involved with quixtar make nothing or lose money. Prove me wrong if not.

    Jane says: Joe Cool answers about every post with a smart mouth putting Quixtar down.

    Joe says: Again, I am exposing the truth. Since the truth hurts you, you see it as bashing.

    Jane says: Who is Eric Scheibler author of Merchants of Deception, and what is his bashing motivation?

    Joe says: Eris is a former emerald who made only $30,000 a year despite having a huge buiness. He is simply telling his story. Again, it cannot be helped if the truth doesn’t agree with you.

    Jane said: The second thing in common on the sites bashing Amway/Quixtar is bashing the Republican Party. My goodness, Amway gave four million during four years to the G O P.

    Joe says: I have not commented on the GOP. I am a republican. Although, I do not feel that quixtar functions should have diamonds telling people who to vite for.

    Jane said: NBC Dateline takes hidden cameras into a Quixtar seminar. Hidden Cameras, now isn’t that real stand up front?

    Joe says: Yes, Dateline should have allowed quixtar to alter what really happens in a function? That was a real function and Bill Britt declined to be interviewed and/or make comment. What was he hiding?

    Jane said: What is my motivation for standing up for Amway? To me, my daughters and several grandchildren, it was an exciting business where we learned a lot and had a great time.

    Joe says: Great, I’m glad you had a great time. Isn’t “business” about making money though?

  174. Joecool

    Jane,

    Quixtar is simply not a good business opportunity for the vast majority of people. The products are priced too high to be competitive with the big retailers.

    That’s why you would be hard pressed to find a handful of former IBOs who are loyal to quixtar products. Once IBOs realize that quixtar will not deliver the dreams and early retirement as they thought, they quit and go back to Walmart and Costco – because of better value.

    Nobody has said quixtar is illegal. But illegal and unethical are two differenet things.

    I know some people do succeed in quixtar and make money. But the issue is far too many fail in order for the few who succeed. Overall, quixtar doesn’t add any value to a local community or economy.

    If the prices were lower and diamonds were not pushing the sale of their tapes and seminars, we wouldn’t be having this discussion now would we?

    Quixtar is simple: Buy stuff, sell stuff, get others to get involved. Why do you need an endless suppply of tapes and seminars to learn such a simple concept? Kindly answer that for me.

  175. Jane Noblett

    MOTIVATION

    What is the MOTIVATION for all the Quixstar/Amway bashing? This site belongs to Diwaker Gupta. He went to a Quixtar meeting and says “ ‘ Merchants of Deception is a must read for anyone planning on getting into Quixtar.
    Joe Cool answers about every post with a smart mouth putting Quixtar down. I’ve found two things common in all the bashing. First, with 6 to 8 million distributors, negative web pages eventually name one huge Amway/Quixtar organization, Dexter Yeager’s.
    Who is Eric Scheibler author of Merchants of Deception, and what is his bashing motivation? Scheibler is an X emerald Amway/Quixtar distributor, Meaning during his ten years in the business he built 3 groups each doing about $1500 a month that he received 3 % of plus annual bonuses amounting to 6 figures. He got his J. d. from Notre Dam law school. Instead of accepting a sale of $75,000 for the work he put in to build the Emerald distributorship, he resigned and is representing disgruntled Quixtar ibos for $550 an hour. A few million is pocket change is nice, huh?
    The second thing in common on the sites bashing Amway/Quixtar is bashing the Republican Party. My goodness, Amway gave four million during four years to the G O P. That seems like a piddly amount in comparison to what billionaire George Sorros gives to the Democrats.
    Mother Jones, radical investigative social commentary from the far left. Mara Hawse/Mother Jones labor agitator was of small grandmotherly appearance but known as the most dangerous woman in America.
    NBC Dateline takes hidden cameras into a Quixtar seminar. Hidden Cameras, now isn’t that real stand up front? I’d be willing to bet fifty other cameras were in the open. For an hour or so of reading the interview with Bill Britt, you get down to the nitty-gritty. It is a Dexter Yeager seminar, and oh my goodness. Dick Devos ran for senator in Michigan.
    I’m sure a bunch of republicans’ sides are aching from laughter. Yep NBC is frequently in the news for its left wing biases. The digging dirt on the right, true or false, sells direly needed ratings for NBC. Ratings and Republicans all in one shot!
    What is my motivation for standing up for Amway? To me, my daughters and several grandchildren, it was an exciting business where we learned a lot and had a great time. What peeves me is Schreibler, and Dateline are bashing the heart of Free Enterprise.
    Rich Devos and Jay VanAndel started with one product to market. They built the corporation from starting out like every ibo does now. The billions of dollars the corporation takes in annually is impressive, but their dream to take Free Enterprise into the whole world, and at a time when Mom and Pop stores were becoming extinct, is more than any government has done.

  176. Joecool

    Jane, are you actually going to post any facts or just rehash the same junk you posted before? At least I posted facts that can be verified – such as the poor average income of IBOs.

    Your rehashing of nothing suggests to me that you have no defense or rebuttal, therefore you attack the messenger and not the message. A pretty common tactic
    among IBOs it would seem.

  177. Christian

    Let state I am an IBO first off. I do think some of the things you say are fair, but everything. I do believe that the meetings set up are really to fake, I meen that by the people, I think they are good people and the issue really is that they feel they need to sell them selves, and maybe they do because people can be really shallow.

    As far as the tools go, there a teams out there who don’t focus on tools, they have limited amount and most are not for sale, and the teams are smaller, they not part of the BWW or the World Wide groups or the other 5 big ones out there.

    I think that the real business of Amway/Quixtar gets lost in the meetings.

    I believe with my whole heart anyone focused and driven can do this business and make money with out the tools or any of that.

    Is there money for people with out tools yes, and this year even more. (Double Bonuses for the next 5 years and they are going back to the amway name.)

    So how do make money, you sell the products and when some say I love these product or gives you a name that is when you show them the business.

    What you fill your mind withis what you will put out!

  178. Christian

    advertise

    They have in past focused on products on discovery channel.

    And this year they will be making a bigger focus then even the past.

    But it will alway be smart advertising, they want to make their focus on who their clients are what they watch what they read.

    let mr ask you this and I will even give you the answer. advertiseing for Pepsi and Coke why do they do it? Because most people are set on what product they like and you can’t change so why advertise? the reason is because 1/4 of the people who see those commercials will go to there fridge to grab the soda and will drink and the idea is to get them to drink more of it so they replace what they drank.

  179. Jane Noblett

    Motivation II
    Joe,
    You’re clever. You skipped all around what your true motivation is and why you’re spending tremendous hours searching the web to repeat lies and half truths by posting here. What is your motivation to spend so much time reading other web sites then parroting your version here. That isn’t facts Joe.

    It’s lying. Lying by omitting is still lying. You don’t say Scriebler, Britt, Team, and the Tool business scandal come from Dexter Yeager’s organization.
    Presently, Amway has 8 million business people. Big fat if, but if the entire Yeager organization has 1 or 2 million, it still leaves 6 million or more that run ethical businesses free of scandal.
    I sponsored in some of those people. I’m retired and won’t make a penny from them, but I’ll not let you or anyone include the ones I sponsored with the disturbing practices of Yeager and others in his organization. Two of the groups that are still in, came in during the early 70’s. The one I buy products from joined the business in the early 80’s. I’ve worked with thousands. These are good loving, caring, people not deserving of your lies and half truths.
    Dateline taped six hours or more about the remarkable quality control, research, and the ultra sophistication in the plant at Ada. They interviewed several Crown directs, but all they put on the Air was one lower level Diamond, yeah old Yeager. Why, because he’s colorful, oh is he ever colorful, and the lily white truth doesn’t increase Dateline’s ratings.

    You don’t post Scheibler is telling what happened in the Yeager organization, not the other 6 million running scandalous free businesses. Furthemore, I don’t think you have the ability to read Scheibler’s mind and intentions. His intentions aren’t, his motivation.
    You made my point stronger that more money appears to be Scheibler’s motivation by posting he was only making $30,000 a year as Emerald. In that case to legally represent Yeager’s disgruntled ibos for a fee at $550 an hour appears to be much stronger motivation than I indicated above.

    $550 an hoiur sounds like Opry running up a $600,000 before Birkhead could fire her.

    If Schiebler felt he really could win a case of this magnitude, he would have taken it on contingency.

    Isn’t Scheibler’s $30,000 for a part time business in Amway? Isn’t he a law professor at the same place he got his jd, Notre Dam University.

    Joe, you’re sounding like Hilary flip flopping. In your recent post you claim you didn’t say Quixtar was illegal.

    Here’s post 38 of yours—way up there at the beginning-Dated Feb. 2007

    Joe says,”Also, amway/quixtar is a pyramid. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to prosper. Sure you can move past your sponsor but you still need to move up the pyramid to make any serious money.”

    Calling the business a pyramid is saying it practices illegally. My dear Joe, Pyramids are illegal. In two sentences you call it a pyramid twice.

    Later, I’ll tell you and others how and why you are putting yourselves in a situation where you could be sued for defamation even though you use fictitious names.

    Joe, You personally have cost me money. Go back and read my post. When I found this site, I was going to get back into the business. I haven’t because of the lies and half truths you’re spreading on here. Not getting back into the business to mainly by wholesale is costing me money—at least the difference between wholesale and retail.
    If I got back into the business, Quixstar may reasonably ask me not to respond on here or to the media, because like in my first post about Scheibler, I inadvertently gave incorrect info. By not keeping up to date, I think the percentage for each direct you sponsor has changed to 4% instead of 3%. I also wrote $1500 instead of $15,000.

    Note the increase in percent in favor of the distribors. Any time the Amway plan has been changed,it’s been to benefit the distributors. Now that is a proven fact, Joe, not some parroted lie.

  180. Jane Noblett

    Joe,

    Some of your statements belong with the rest of the cow manuer.

    I. That ibo’s that get out of the business seldom buy Amway products.

    Truth, Joe, is several of the ibo’s in my organization had been in the business before and asked to get back in mine. I think the statistics kept by Amway of the ones who have gotten back in the business for the second and third times are impressive.

    2. Your exagerated length of time to make a retail sale is ridiculous.

    My last order was over $200. The ibo returned the message I left on her recorder.
    I gave the order. She phoned it in on her scheduled order day with the rest of her orders. Then she’s done except recieving 30% retail from my credit card sale, plus my oder was close to putting her in the 3% bonus.

    Gee weren’t her two phone calls hard? Do the math for her time and what she made. The order was drop-shipped to me.

    In my 30 years in the business, I repeatedly drop-shipped orders to my familly in Mo.

    4. You say you have to have a group to be profitable. Nope, Nope, Nope. Back in the 1960′s when I limited myself to 80 regular retail clients, I would deliver their order, show them new products and write up another order. I was in and out within 30 minutes. Many of these stops were at offices where several paid for their orders and gave me new ones. When you have 4 girls giving you $60 and $70 oders, it doesn’t take long for sales to add up.

    I had a fun place to deliver to also.
    It was a bar. Our pet name for it was, RCA, Rabbit Creek Alcholics.

    In those days, Alaska had a lot of wilderness and little entertainment. When we couldn’t find our neighbors at home, we phoned the bar to find them.

    I wouod deliver a car load of orders to the bar and pick up a stack of new orders people left for me. Yeah, $300 to $500 a trip.
    On that I didn’t even get tax write offs. Someone else always bought me a drink. Of course people often threatened to charge me office space, and clerecil wages for taking the orders, holding their money and paying me. So I loved going there once a week. Besides friendly, caring, and fun loving people, it didn’t take long to have $3000 in orders, and I could be before my children came from school, and have dinner ready when my husband came from work.

    I didn’t have to work anyone elses schedule, or put up with office politics.

  181. Jane Noblett

    Joe,
    You seem to have all the answers and I want to know several things.
    1. Tisha wrote a cordial and postive post.
    You came back snotty saying Quixtar was doing fine but the IBos were going in debt.

    Please explain how anyone with minimal busines or common sense can go in debt in this business and it’s the Corporation’s fault?

    Isn’t there a money back guantee on the starter kit? Isn’t there a rule that the ibo has to move 70 of the products he buys?

    If he does have any inventory, won’t the company buy all of it back for the same cost the ibo paid for it less the amount paid to the ibo in bonus checks?

    What don’t you understand when the corporation says the tapes, books, seminars, and ralleys are options?

    Isn’t it only in the Yeager orginazation where books, tapes, cds, are pushed and people are coerced to attend numerous expensieve, Dream Days etc.?

    Tell me please, who was the pinhead that sponsored Dexter and Birdie Yeager?

    Who were the original distributors from Nutrilite that Rich and Jay used to start their business?

    I should know, but age likes to hide a number of things.

  182. Beth Roe

    I tried dating a Quikstar zombie. His business is the only thing stopping us from getting married. He insisted I force my kids to use the toothpaste, 100 products even if they didn’t like them. His upline kept putting me down for not going to conventions, even though Orlando was during the school year and I have kids. They told me I would eventually have to quit my job as an engineer ( which I love doing) so that I could support my qstar husband’s job. He told me he needed to change the Sabath to Saturday so he could sell good Christians on Sunday night with his upline. He told me he had to spend one night per week calling, one night per week at the hotel, and one weekend out of town every month and we wanted three kids.. so that meant I had to learn to be alone sometimes for the family. He told me I had to go with him until we have kids, and had to stop wearing blue jeans so much or I as dishonoring him and God. I make a fine living and don’t work overtime and am well respected in my career, but he wanted me to spend my nights with uneducated women with pitiful little lives.. We spent many days with uneducated McDonald workers and I have a degree in Engineering and Math. He told me he only sold people who could afford it, but actually I spent many hours watching him try to sell strangers: waitresses, butchers, college students, oil change workers…It is about greed… We already made enough money with my engineering degree and his masters in education, but greeed got him and greed took over his life. We couldn’t go on weekend trips anymore, because he had to go to the uplines house. I miss him, but can’t marry a guy like that.

  183. DanMichigan

    Jane, Thanks for the info. I’m from Grand Rapids Michigan,I’ll ask my friend if he is involved with the Yeager group. I have learned a great deal with the postings on this site, thanks all.

  184. Jane Noblett

    The owner of this site says Merchants of Deception is a must read. Joecool says do your deligence and read Merchants of Deception.

    AMWAY – QUIXTAR STORY PRESENTED ON NBC DATELINE A FRAUD?

    ERIC SCHEIBELER “MERCHANTS OF DECEPTION”

    Sept 2007 — A former Amway (Quixtar) Corp. Distributor Eric N. Scheibeler admitted that he lied when he said he’d uncovered billions of dollars in consumer fraud with the company. This shocking information was made in a federal court filing to settle a defamation suit bought by Amway (Quixtar). Scheibeler wrote a book, “Merchants of Deception,” slamming Amway. In addition Eric Scheibeler in a written document to Attorneys for Alticor – Amway – Quixtar that he falsely said: (1) He and his family were threatened (2) He was offered money to be “silent” (3) Quixtar attacked his web site. In exchange for Eric Scheibeler’s written apology Amway and Quixtar agreed not to continue their defamation suit in U.S. Middle District Court and not to seek legal fees from Scheibeler. The Defamation suit against Eric Scheibeler quoted letters to the Cleveland Free Times and a statement in as Swedish newspaper. Editor’s note: NBC Dateline did cover themselves, they reported in the segment that Scheibeler was starting his own MLM Company (which later failed)

    This really ticks me off. How dare him to act a victim and then dupe the people who click to read his poorly written “book?”.

    Bold as all Hell he ask people who look up his book to donate $$$ for his legal fees for his defamation and lies that have harmed millions of people, including my reputation for being a 30 year distributor before retiring.
    This idiot S. broke rules from the beginning and new it. If he hadn’t thrown away the white pad to varify his sails to ten customers, he would difinately made more money.

    Ten years ago, This self-made-victim recieved a starter kit with the rules of conduct and code of ethics in it. He was at the direct level for nine years. That means he had a direct distributor manual covering every inch of ethics and training of his goup.
    What’s more, for nine years he received a tape called Directly Speaking from the co-founder, Rich DeVose.

    These tapes tell directs: Don’t use the podium for a pulpet. Don’t stack your distributors. These tapes tell every direct distributor about any violations the corproation hears about from distributors.

    Scheiblerer almost had my empathy, because personaly, I can’t stand Dexter Yager and hate how Amway has to keep reprimanding him.

    Eric Scheibeler or none of the rest of Yager’s directs or above can say they didn’t know about having a minimum of retail sales.

    Nine years ago when Sceibeler qualified for direct distributor, he had to fill out a form showing he moved 70% of his products to his distrubutors and turn in the pink copy of the sales slips proving her made sales to 10 clients.

    So he lied in order to receive money he did not ethically earn. Isn’t that stealing from the corporation?

    What about the Profit sharing bonus, ruby bonus, pearl bonus, emrald bonus, Q-12 bonus he received through all of those 9 years.

    Just in Bonuses, how much did he unethically take from Amway? We’re not talking a small felony of $500, even if those were the miniml bonuses, they still run into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    I’ve read about half of his very poorly written book. He has to have it for free; because an agent wouldn’t get through page two before rejecting it.

    Oh, he tries hard to be a self-made victim.
    He’s brain washed by a cult and didn’t know any better. If he can write a book, why in the Hell can’t he read the code of ethics in his starter kit, or read his direct distributor manual.

    Who wants to bet this site will close quickly and that Joecool is either Scheideler or a close associate?
    I’ve read half of his book, and felt a little sorry for him, because I fully understand Amway considers Yager a loose cannon.

  185. Joecool

    Jane,

    What I said is true. The vast majority of IBOs are losing money and quixtar is prospering. Please note I didn’t “blame” quixtar for the problems.

    The problems stem from the organizations such as BWW and WWDB. They teach you things that can bankrupt you. Such as firce loyalty to the teaching system. Buy extra tapes and seminar tickets, regardlesss of your business profits or results. Not succeeding? Buy more tools!

    Thats the true issue. If you actually read merhcants of decption, one of the things that his upline did was schedule his own functions such as a cruise at a cost of $5,000, which the IBOs could have scheduled on their own for half the price.

    Seems as if groups like BWW that push tools on people who aren’t making progress is unethical. Isn’t that what you’re promoting here Jane?

  186. Joecool

    Jane, I find it humorous that you sai I am lying and telling half truths, yet you don’t point out what it is I am lying about.

    Quixtar is a legal pyramid. I have never said it was illegal.

    Fact: The vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money. It gets worse if those IBOs participate in the tools system.

    Fact: In the 6-4-2 plan, if IBOs are participating in tools, the group suffers tremendous financial losses.

    Fact: The tools teach you more about recruiting than selling quixtar products.
    Why is that?

    Fact: Overall, Costco is much cheaper than quixtar.

    Fact: Conmen get you to do things willingly, yet conmen are not considered ethical or legal.

    I invite further debate on my blog:

    http://joecool-quixtar-thedreamorthescheme.blogspot.com